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Free will versus Fate - is the Future set?  

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(@jeanne-mayell)
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12/29/2019 11:42 am  

Brenda asked why we have different predictions for the election outcome.  

I attempted to answer this way and wonder what your thoughts are about this subject: 

Brenda, the answer to your question is complex and involves understanding the nature of consciousness as well as the nature of the whole universe.

How Consciousness affects our predictions:

When people make psychic predictions, if they are doing it correctly, then they are feeling vibrations during the target date (i.e., the election and/or the inauguration). Then they interpret what they feel. Some see visions, some hear words, some just get a feeling, and some just spout out or write down what is in their heads. What’s in their heads is a mix of psychic feelings, opinion (not psychic), what they have read (not psychic), and what they are hoping for (not psychic).

So the process is one of our pulling energy we detect out of our unconscious mind into our conscious minds.

It’s in that process of bringing what we pick up unconsciously into our conscious awareness that is where we make mistakes. Our conscious minds block what we don’t want to see and also we replace what we are sensing with all the stuff we’ve read elsewhere. We also see things from different perspectives. Some people take a pessimistic view, others more optimistic, and some in between.

So it’s an imperfect process and depends on the person doing the readings.

Fate versus Free Will: how self determination affects the future:

Also there is a reason why psychic predictions are part of mysticism — it’s a mystery and can’t be absolutely determined. For one thing, we have free will or at least humans have believed in free will since the beginning of time.

So your question addresses one of the greatest mysteries that philosophers have been studying forever: fate versus free will. The Ancient Greeks had a lot to say about this issue.

I don’t believe the future is fully determined until it happens. Somethings are determined or at least, we can see how things are going to go to a certain extent. Often fate rules when people are unaware and ignorant. Once people begin waking up to an issue, free will starts changing the future. So free will is at play in this coming election and some things have yet to play out.


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(@practicalnihilist)
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12/29/2019 12:08 pm  

Well said Jeanne!

 

Regarding the future not being set I do have some interesting experiences on that.

 

I went to a psychic years ago just out of curiosity to see if the spiritual world is real.  The psychic asked if I had a brother and because I'm an only child I thought she was wrong. She then said I was supposed to have a brother.  I discussed that with my Mom and and as it turns out she had a miscarriage before me.  Apparently there was a cosmic plan for me to have a brother but it just didn't happen for whatever reason.

 

And one other experience, I went to the same psychic once a year for about 3 years and she gave me similar readings for my future love life.  Then I met this person the psychic predicted and you would think that I am happily married but unfortunately it didn't work out.  

 

From the above experiences I've learned that psychics can and do provide accurate predictions but life is not set in stone.  I think of predictions as schedules; we may agree to certain events at certain times but sometimes plans fall apart for whatever reason.


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(@laura-f)
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12/29/2019 4:12 pm  

My opinion has always been that the argument should not be couched as fate vs. free will, rather free will vs. randomness.  I don't believe in fate at all anymore, I view it as a holdover from our pre-literate existence, when people didn't even know where rain came from. Humans are hard-wired to find meaning in everything, so that's why concepts like salvation and fate came into being.  Finding meaning in the random is part of what let us survive, and certainly even today it's what helps keep some people going. But as for fate, I have no use for it. As for free will, yes, by all means one needs to use their free will as much as possible, however sometimes the randomness that is inherent in our universe prevails.

 


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(@bright-opal)
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12/29/2019 7:30 pm  

My faith is Christian based.  I live my psychic life with a Christian twist.  I believe God gave us the great gift of freedom.  So we get to decide what we want and what we don't.

I also believe we were all given a mission to accomplish on this Earth.  It is up to us to decide if we want to go through with it or not, consciously or unconsciously.  We all know what our mission is, even if we are not consciously aware of it.

Having said that, when we go through the remote viewing exercises, I believe we are reading the present in a way.  What I mean is this, based on the cosmic energies at the moment, we read the future.  As Jeanne said, we are somewhat influenced with what we know at the time.  But our freewill can and will change predictions we have made because we can change our future.  The future is not static, it is left to be written.

For exemple,whenever I do a reading for a friend of mine, I always tell her that the cards are talking about a future based on the situation at the present time: "If you continue on this path, this is what is going to happen".  Sometimes she changes things and thereby changes her own future and sometimes she doesn't.

I believe sometimes things are pre-ordained because of choices other people make.  So if I say to you, you will eat pizza tonight and your husband orders a pizza, you can still somewhat change the future by not eating the pizza.  But you will eat something else while your husband eats a wonderful cheezy pizza.  So there will still be pizza in the home and you might be very tempted to eat some.  I know I would!

I have seen war boats in the Indian oceans for some time now.  Today I learned Iran, India and Russia are doing wargames.  Whether you and I want it or not, this is what is happening today.  However other people chose to, or decided to conduct these wargames based on what they read of the present irratic state of the World:  Trump.  As psychic we felt the cosmic energy  would get us there base on what our guides tell us.  If Trump had been removed a while ago, the cosmic energy would probably shift and those wargames between these 3 countries would probably not be happening at this time.

So in a way, I am in agreement with Laura F.  I believe we make our own fate.


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(@yofisofi)
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12/31/2019 12:03 am  

@laura-f

How about things we can control (free will) vs. things we cannot control? I feel that randomness is part of the latter but there are other things as well, like natural processes and the consequences of other people's choices. 


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(@laura-f)
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12/31/2019 1:40 am  

@yofisofi

Sure, but I would say that many natural processes and other people's actions/consequences can present as random events in our individual lives.

We could argue that earthquakes are pre-ordained (fate) because we know what causes them and know they will happen, but the fact that no one can say exactly when puts it into the realm of random. I choose to live in an area known for earthquakes (free will), but I don't feel that I have a fate to go through earthquakes, I feel that they are random occurrences that if I really wanted to avoid I should then exert my free will and live elsewhere.

I think we're saying the same thing, but just in different ways.


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(@herondreams)
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12/31/2019 9:42 am  

I have always wondered about (and been somewhat troubled by) this very problem, which brings to mind examples of predictions in famous works of literature--Oedipus being the most obvious example because without that prediction that prompted his separation from his parents in the first place, the tragedy may have been avoided. So when we get glimpses of what's to come, our agency isn't lost; our actions can make a difference. But how do we know the right actions?

In my experience, I've noticed a difference between my gut-intuition and the rare flashes of future events that have felt like "the sight." Many, many years ago, as I was standing next to my car about to unlock the door, I had a flash--like deja-vu but for the future--and saw that I would not be able to board a plane for a trip that was a couple months away. I shook it off, although I did tell a few people about it, hoping that would jinx any possibility of a psychic prediction. Still, when the actual day came I was nervous, and when I successfully reached the next airport, I called my parents (at my destination) to let them know so far, so good. Then, as I was about to board the final flight, the attendant stopped taking tickets. They announced that there was a weight issue and they could not allow any more passengers on the plane. It was Christmas, and some airports were already re-routed due to snow, so I was unable to make the trip and instead flew back home so I didn't have to spent the whole holiday in the airport. My family was devastated, so it was a big deal, though much better than other possibilities (like if the plane crashed!).

In this case, I'm not sure how I might have used that pre-cog flash to avoid that outcome. I'm very shy and polite, so I let people in line in front of me; perhaps I could have pushed up in front to make sure I got on that plane. But back at that time, it all felt inevitable. And what karma (cause and effect) might I have set in motion if I had maneuvered up front to get on that plane? As Galadriel says in The Lord of the Rings: Even the wisest cannot see all ends. It really is a mystery.

When I was young I was obsessed with wanting to know what was going to happen and what steps I should take and should avoid to get what I want. I used to read cards and the I-Ching to figure it all out. Now my aim is a path of mindfulness and to be more at peace with uncertainty in a way that allows me more joy and gratitude in the moment. Rather than try to guess at what is coming, I listen to my intuition in the hope of being of proper service--acting in a way that is less about what I want and more about tuning in to what is happening right now so I may respond to it with intention. (If that makes sense.)

But as for this question in general, although we cannot know all ends and there is much mystery, I do think there is a cause & effect, a continual process of karma that is at play in the world, and some threads of where things are headed may be perceived by those who are tuned-in, like y'all who share your gifts here. Some of these threads may be more tightly woven into place than others, and some may be snipped or re-directed. 

The Norns Weaving Fate--Arthur Rackham

 

 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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12/31/2019 12:29 pm  

@herondreams So,we get accurate visions of the future, but it doesn't help us avoid the situation, like your being denied a plane ride. Yours was a powerful and beautifully written post, so many thanks. I'm sorry this post is so long. You got me thinking. I agree with all you wrote, and still I want to say this: 

Like your situation, we often don't see enough of a future event to avoid it.  We don't see deeply enough and with enough perspective and wisdom.We see only what we are capable of seeing at the time, given our breadth of consciousness.  

So, what if your airplane vision and the fact that you are still thinking about it, is really about a larger consciousness that your psyche is still trying to grasp? Interesting in a metaphorical way that it was about getting into a machine that reunites you with your parents. 

You mention Oedipus Rex, the first century Greek play.  (Also about a young adult who was journeying (unwttingingly) to reunite with his parents) I had to read that play in school when I was 14, and, while I understood only parts of it at the time.  I came to realize as I grew older  that it  addressed the mysteries we need to  unravel today if we are to avoid the fate of annihilation. 

In the play, an oracle told two parents exactly what would happen to their family.   Their infant son would grow up and kill his father and marry his mother.

They were the richest and most powerful people in the land. They thought they could easily avoid this fate by giving him away.  But they didn't understand the deeper truth underlying the prophecy.  Everyone proceeded blindly and the prophecy was fulfilled.  The Oracle's eyes were' open, but the parents' eyes were closed.  A poor ragged blind man, Teresias, also saw the truth, but no one listened until it was too late.

People think that reading psychics' predictions will help them avoid a future they don't want. I maintain that we have to learn to see inwardly ourselves to make use of this gift.  We also need to "see" with wisdom. 

My reason for posting predictions:  So that people can learn by tracking themselves as we track the hits. Secondly we can get a sense of our world by seeing so many visions at once. Doing parlor tricks has never been the goal. Also predictions are not the only focus of my work  They are just the part of my website that everyone focuses on. My focus is also on mindfulness, happiness, gratitude, empowerment, and channeling ancient wisdom via the ancient Tarot. 

For predictions to help us, however, we need  wisdom about what we are seeing. wisdom about ourselves. So we must evolve.   The Intuitive Way class (begins January 6) attempts to help us evolve and grow while widening our third eye. 

Sophocles was writing in part about the Oedipus complex in us all -- that boys want to out do their fathers and win over their mothers.  Or another way to put it is that we felt competitive to please our parents and take the family dynasty to ever new heights, and we look for mates who makes us feel like we felt about our parents.   For many there is no avoiding this tendency even when people choose a mate who is nothing (in their mind) like that parent. The problem was that tendencies in human nature are programmed within us.  If we can't see them, we can't avoid fulfilling them. 

The Oedipus complex  is also about the drive for power. It may seem a stretch, but I can see that this  competitive need, along with trying to be a step beyond our parents, may be part of the fatal flaw that has brought us climate destruction. If you study some of the most powerful (and destructive) oligarchs of today, such as Trump, Putin, and the Koch Brothers, you can see the Oedipus story unfolding in them. In the end, they will crumble just as Oedipus did.  

Yet I still don't fully understand the whole truth of how we got to the edge of annihilation.  

We have brought this climate calamity upon ourselves at least in part by thinking we could rule over our greatest and most abiding mother and father - Mother Earth and Father son.  

Climate change is a catastrophe of hubris. The Greek myth of Oedipus is, above all, about hubris. 

As in the Greek play, we won't be free until our eyes are opened. I keep seeing this truth but I don't want to see it. We need to see our Selves, not just some event in the future. To do that, we need to reach a higher level of consciousness.  

 


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(@thebeast)
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12/31/2019 6:56 pm  

I am sorry to disagree, but I believe the future is set in stone. Much like the past. Woven it is, not by some old ladies, but by all, ourselves, sentient beings here on earth. No matter how hard we fall, how much we fail, how much we harm . This is our path of redemption. This is the thread we have woven ourselves. This is the pain we need to endure to become better. This is our story . Even in the darkest night, your fate is embracing the warmth of the dawn . Your sacrifice is never in vain. Never was, never will . We are all condemned to one day live in peace together . We are all condemned to be happy one day. Our Earth, our home will be saved. Fellow weaver, we wouldn't have it any other way . I embrace fate . Happy new year!


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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12/31/2019 7:16 pm  

@thebeast, wonderful post. I don't see your post as disagreement, but rather as another enriching  perspective. We are having a discussion and it is about mysteries so every one's thoughts help us all. 


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(@herondreams)
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01/01/2020 10:00 am  

@jeanne-mayell

Lovely, thoughtful post! I agree that the goal is to raise consciousness. In our blindness we focus on ourselves as separate from the collective, and direct our energy into personal security regardless of the cost to our ecosystem, and the well being of other people and all kinds of life. This pervasive mindset among those with great power of the the world and exploit its resources for profit is how we are on this brink of annihilation. I take hope in your visions and those of others on here that the calamities we're facing (thinking of Australia right now) will wake people up and force us to work together and live in greater harmony with our ecosystem. Fostering this awakening and insight is the best-use of intuitive gifts--seeing through the clouded, human/self-centered "reality" to a wider reality in which we are one. One specific prediction that comes to mind is the experience you shared of channeling an angel who offered many assurances that we will be okay, and the statement that forests are like a "fairyland"--teeming with not just life but consciousness. We are seeing a movement in favor of re-forestation. This is just one example of how we might open our eyes, and if we see better, we will act better. ❤️ 


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(@coyote)
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01/02/2020 5:42 pm  

Our individual takes on this issue will depend on how each of us defines the amorphous concept of fate. I'm reminded of the exchange in the film The Matrix, when Orpheus asks Neo whether he believes in fate. Neo's response: "No, because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life." Well, that answer bothered me, because I've always thought of fate in a way that's compatible with free will. So thank you Jeanne for providing a definition that I was never able to put into words:

Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

Often fate rules when people are unaware and ignorant. Once people begin waking up to an issue, free will starts changing the future.

In my view, there it is. Fate encompasses those outcomes that come into being when an individual or collective passively lets outside forces determine their actions. Perhaps, in the grand sweep  of the multiverse, there are parallel worlds where every single possible outcome has already played out. If so, the future is in a way set in stone. But this is all beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.

 


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