Ethical Issues around predicting someone's demise or death

I don't believe it to be necessary to detail the upcoming death of any public figure.  One *can* detail the results of that figure's passing.

For instance, if a figure in line of succession for the Presidency were going to make their transition, one could talk about how the line of succession is about to change, or how a figure connected to Republican corruption would no longer be on the stage or have any public effect. Or a public figure in Mueller's sights will be out of the picture before indictments will drop. 

All of those refer to the results of a figure's passing.

I think it's also legitimate to mention the means of death if it's significant, for instance: A figure in the Senate will transition due to polonium poisoning.

Where I have trouble with predicting, publicly, a particular person's death is that kind of projection of a death can activate the probability of death.

In some cultures, such predictions were used as magical curses. And in those cultures, with those beliefs--they worked! 

It's like Schroedinger's Cat in physics. Perception constellates reality. 

R1

I can't say that I've had experience predicting the death of a public figure. Or anyone outside my family for that matter.  In seeing death in my dreams, I can't say I've seen the actual way a person has died-I've just discerned that someone was going to pass. 

In the case of my daughter, I didn't realize the things I was seeing or feeling as precognitive.  My dream was that I was pregnant and I miscarried. I can still hear my cries of noting it was too early for her to be gone. I didn't make the association with the dream to my rising concerns while awake about allowing my then teen to go on the trip. It perplexed me, as I didn't intend to have more children, yet it haunted me at the same time.  Nor did my daughter realize that this trip was going to fulfill her premonition that her life would be cut short while young, her death would be sensational, or that it would be talked about around the world. I had enough concern that at one point I was privately questioning the representative of the company that was arranging the trip about the safety of the ground transportation they were using. When he became agitated quickly, he wanted to know what "my issue" was.  I got agitated with this dismissive attitude, and said "I don't want my daughter blown up on public transportation." I think he thought I was nuts, and I've often wondered if he recalled our conversation in the wake of the crash. It never occurred to me that the public transportation would be a plane. I kept thinking of issues with a bus or train they were taking. Here again, I was thinking of terrorists, and had no clue that the terrorist notion I was tapping into would be in the form of never ending conspiracy theories about the crash. 

With the recent death of my sister, the dream premonitions were dreams of my mother showing me old family movies, and telling me I'd have to be the keeper of the memories, since my sister was gone. Another was being told/shown that my sister was killed in a plane crash. I fortunately didn't see the crash itself-just the panic on the faces of the plane's occupants-including my sister, but upon waking, I knew that the odds were astronomical of having two family members being killed in separate plane crashes. I realized that they were telling me it would be sudden, and out of anyone's control. Planes don't crash if they can be controlled. I also kept getting indications when I'd toss the cards. I'd ask about something totally different, and find the card I associate with her astrological sign along with cards that showed death or disaster instead of getting answers to my actual question. I would occasionally get a card that showed the cause of her death, but it just didn't register with me until after her passing. I told no one of my visions or dreams in the last few months of her life, they wouldn't have believed me. I had told my sister several times in the three years before her passing that I saw her end was coming. After our older sister was diagnosed as terminal, I told the younger sister that I knew I'd be the last man standing in the family, and that bothered me. She wasn't fond of hearing that, and when reminded that she and I both saw repeatedly that I had a long life, and she'd never see 50, she said she decided those visions weren't accurate. She'd changed her mind about it. A year and a half later, she asked me to tune into her friend who was in a coma. She couldn't reach him when she tried. When I did as she asked, I told her he would not be coming back, and I was told she'd go the same way. She nearly passed from a similar ailment months later. She told me that it was obvious that this close call was what I saw, and she was relieved. I told her I too had felt nervous about her surgery and the similarities, but that even tho she had a close call, I didn't believe that was what I saw. She refused to listen, even when she had a two more brushes with death in the year before her actual death, which is why I didn't relay the two dreams or the intrusive information I got in the readings in the four months before her passing. I had been shown it wouldn't stop anything. Her cause of death was something totally different from her friend's, but there were great similarities in the patterns of their last months, their ages, the suddenness of their death, etc. She in many ways did go the way he did. 

Since then I still get some intruding messages about forthcoming deaths of others in the family when I'm asking totally unrelated questions. I'll see the card that corresponds with their astrological sign, and an indication of death or hardship. It started with my sister coming to me within 48 hours of her death in my dreams, showing me she was ashamed of how she treated me and my parents. It took over two weeks to realize that she also inserted a movie reference she knew I'd get, that could be indicative of my parents being gone soon as well. I fully realize that her concept of time over there is totally out of alignment with our time here, so soon for her may be far different for soon for me. 

We sometimes will be given insights into the fact that someone is going to pass, but our timing may be off or we may not see the actual cause of their death. My sister was not killed in a plane crash-that was symbolic to let me know it was out of anyone's control. I had great guilt after my daughter's death. I didn't realize that the flashes I sometimes got were precognitive, or that sometimes my dreams were. I just thought that I was good at guessing when I'd get flashes. I've come to the conclusion that sometimes we're given information so we can be prepared. If we were meant to change what we saw that was going to happen, we'd be given the capability. 

I've seen quite a number of psychic predictions that have been made elsewhere about Trump's death. Some have it from natural causes, some not. Some have it while he's in office, some not. For those who are going to tune in about a public figure like Trump, ask yourself if you believe what you are seeing is about his life, or the demise of his presidency or business. For those here, I could see a subconscious desire to see the end of his time in office being an energy that is present at the time you are trying to tune in or do a reading, and that bleeding through without realization. I could easily see that the demise of either his presidency, business, or what he perceives as his public image- could easily lead to his physical demise. The same would apply to seeing the death of a public figure like a movie star, musician, prominent business person. If you see a death, is it a physical death, or is it symbolic of their career perhaps? If you were to see the death of a news anchor, is it the death of the anchor personally, or is that cable or tv network going to die (be restructured, sold, etc.)? I've told family members what I've seen in the past. My daughter had her own premonitions and was with me when I had the exchange with the rep from the field trip company. I told my sister and her boyfriend what I saw. It changed nothing, and wasn't taken to heart-even tho it agreed with my sister's own life long predictions about her longevity. I have not told anyone in my family what I've been seeing in the cards or what my passed sister showed me, with the exception of my son. I want him to have time to prepare if I'm right. I don't see myself telling others what I see in the future, should I see further passings coming. It lessened the shock of my sister's death, and thus allowed me to have a clear enough head to be of aid to others in the family-but it also put a target on my back from people like her boyfriend and his mother. With the things I see with my parents, I now get anxious every time they tell me of a physical complaint. It's not a nice burden to bear. 

Death is not the end of something, it is a transition from one thing, form, or phase to another. Keep this in mind as you review what you see. 

I really had no idea that something I said would cause such concern. I am really sorry. As far as predicting death I don't know if it's even possible to get an exact on someones death through a vision. The best I think that can be gleaned is what I said earlier that someone has a fate that's ultimately dark but not specifying exactly when. I have never seen Trump's death and if I did I wouldn't believe it or post it. I am sorry for all the distress caused. 

I have had pre-cognitive dreams twice of relative's deaths.  One was very specific and it did happen that way, the other one I was unsure who it was but it was specific, too.  I would not be comfortable telling anyone, though.  Unless it is associated with something like avoiding an accident, I feel it is destined to happen and why scare the other person.  I would be afraid it would be a "self-fulfilling" prophecy.  During the campaign, I did have a vision of something happening to Trump, but nothing has so far so I don't know about that.  Probably is yet to happen or symbolic of a bad ending to his presidency.  Natalie, you should not feel bad!  This is a valuable topic for us.  I am glad to know about what has happened with others since I have experienced that as well.

Natalie, I don't think anything you said caused any concern. It was what I said about imagining someone's death that blew this up.  But since you had had a vision yourself, it got added in to the conversation as an example of how this issue can come up.   

Here's an example of a death prediction that caused harm and one that was withheld and so it didn't cause harm:  

A psychic told someone I knew that if she and her husband moved back to her hometown, it would lead to his death.  Well they did move back and he did become ill with cancer and died a few years later.  I doubt very much that his illness had anything to do with their moving back. It was a move they all wanted to make and were happy making. But when readers see things, they can easily mistake how they interpret what they see. We have a tendency to want to give advice and think that one event (the move) causes the other (the death).  But that interpretation caused great pain, the pain that she could have prevented it. We need to be very careful how we use what we see when it comes to the subject of death.  And unless you are a very wise discerning sage, stay off that topic. 

Another example.  In a class I taught in which everyone was reading everyone else, one student came to me after class to say she saw a serious heart condition in one of the male students who was elderly.  She wanted to know if I thought she should tell him. I asked her not to tell him her vision and that I'd keep an eye on him in future classes and see if there was any heart issue that needed addressing.  At one point I got him talking about his health and learned he had no sign of heat disease in a recent physical exam.  It turned out that a year later his wife died of a degenerative disease. She was in her sixties. The disease takes years to occur and is tied to certain toxins she'd been exposed to.  He was heartbroken.  It's now been three years since her death and he is still suffering the loss.  I am glad she did not tell him of her vision.  I can't think of a single upside to doing so. 

Natalie: All you did was spark a very interesting and necessary conversation. I am grateful for it. It made me think. R1

I agree that it's best not to predict the death of a public figure, unless it's already know that the person has a terminal illness (I don't think it would be an issue to predict McCain's death, for example). If the death of the person is closely connected with some other prediction, so it would be hard to explain without mentioning the death, I think it's best to keep it as vague as possible. It would be best to say something like: "I see Putin no longer leader of Russia because of poor health." (You could say death is a rather extreme case of poor health).

That should save us from any accusations of cursing somebody. It isn't enough that we refrain from curses, we must also refrain from giving anyone any impression that we might have cursed somebody.

I have had personal experience of seeing people's deaths in the future, both relatives and a few celebrities, and my rule has been not to talk about it. I suppose I would if in a particular case I could see some benefit in it, but I never have.

Thanks for a thoughtful response, Maria, and for telling us about your own amazing experiences, and how you have kept them to yourself.

One thought -- I realize it seems fine to predict the death of someone whose public prognosis is terminal.  But even then, as in the case of McCain - if I were McCain or his family, I would not want people predicting my demise.  People have already predicted his death would happen,  and it hasn't happened yet as predicted.  Many people survive these catastrophic illnesses way past the prognosis.  I have a friend who had a serious brain tumor who was supposed to live a few years at most and he lived 24 more years to the delight of his wife and children. And a relative with CML leukemia who was given at most 4 years and now it's been 30 and the condition has just disappeared.

I'm glad you brought this up because it helps us all reflect.  I still don't have the answer but it's good to think about it. 

I actually had a different experience in college where it worked out well that I said something.   I had a predictive dream one night about my grandmother.   In the dream, she said to me, very matter of fact, that she had fallen in her bathroom and died and no one had found her.  She wanted me to make sure someone found her.  It shook me up so badly that I called my grandmother at 2 am and she answered (before caller ID days) and I freaked out and hung up.  

The next morning I called and told her about my dream and that I was sorry to have woken her up.  She hung up with me and called her sister in another state, who could not be reached.  When she couldn't reach her sister, she made someone go check on her.  Her sister was in her bathroom, injured, near death.  She was saved.  She would have died but for my dream and phone call to my grandmother.

My grandmother always had predictive dreams and had one when she was young where she argued with a relative about whether they could take her daughter home.  At the end of that dream, the relative said, okay I'll only take X and not X & Y (her daughter).  X died shortly afterwards, but Y lived after a nearly deadly bout of pneumonia.   So she believed me and acted on it.   

So in some cases it could be a warning if it gets in the right hands.

Powerful. Thank you. 

Jeanne I thought your class story was interesting. It got me thinking about how our minds can receive information but we don't interpret that information totally correctly. So maybe the person who saw the elderly man with a heart condition was actually seeing that he would have a 'broken heart' from his wife dying, but not having that information about his wife the mind intepreted it that he had something physically wrong with this heart.

This topic is very much food for thought. My own point of view is that I can't personally understand why anyone would want to try and predict someone's death, but if someone got a premonition that someone was going to die, well that might be a warning, and it's possible that it could be helpful (as mb shows in their post above).  If it was tied to a particular event, say someone saw a person die in a roller coaster they could caution the person to be careful on such a trip or perhaps put it off or something (not tell them exactly that they are going to die!) . But I do agree, we have to be very careful about what we tell people based on what we see, as we might not have the information quite right and cause anxiety or distress. A tricky subject for sure.

I had a minor predictive experience when I was in my early teens. It wasn't a prediction in that I saw something happening, more of an intuition when a voice inside guides you - I was at home at night watching tv and thinking of going to bed. But something inside me said no, wait, and I decided to stay up a bit more. Some minutes later I heard a noise next door - my mind in a flash put two and two together and I realised from where the sound was that something was wrong: the house next door's stairs were right by the other side of the wall of  the room I was in and the sound was like a rumble, when someone falls down stairs. I immediately got my mum and we checked next door on our elderly neighbour who lived alone - she wasn't answering and we knew something happened. A couple across the road saw us calling through our neighbours letter box and came to help. We called an ambulance and managed to get in the house and our neighbour had suffered a stroke and fallen down the stairs.

If I hadn't listened to my intuition and stayed up a bit longer to watch tv I believe I would not have heard that noise,  and therefore a high probability my neighbour could have died. We would not have know she had fallen and might not have seen her for a few days (that wasn't uncommon).

Unfortunately my neighbour didn't recover well from the stroke and she died some weeks later, which was very sad.  But on reflection I think that time she had left in the hospital gave time for her son who lived some miles away to come and see her. If she had died that night I can only think how much harder it would have been for him.

I always say,  follow your intuition!

Blue, thank you for that story.  It is beautiful to read these magical stories. You softened the blow of your neighbor's illness and fall.   You swooped in like an angel to the rescue.  

She had a terrible fall, all alone, late at night and could have spent endless hours, even days, lying in pain with no help.  

But a caring neighbor sensed what was about to happen to her. Perhaps you sensed her nervous system was failing before it failed.  And you came to help.  Your story -- all of these stories --remind me of how our species is always sensing each other's well being.

We are like one large interconnected organism working together for the greater whole.  Like the grandmother trees who detect and send nutrients and water to the other trees in the forest, and even alert trees to dangers such as a fire, we sense each other's needs and imbalances and distress while we sleep.  

During the hours before I give a private reading, I am sensing the client. I dream about them, feel their issues, and am already sending healing energy to them. I feel my son and daughter's needs too, even when they are a thousand miles away from me.  I believe I'm sending healing where it is needed.  I believe that those of you who come to this site are also performing this healing work unconsciously both for those you love, people in your communities, and for the collective.  

That is one reason we need to take care of ourselves, strengthen ourselves, stay alert but always seeking strength and hope. It's not just for our selves that we do this. It's for all. 

The only death I can predict is my own. It came to me in a dream one morning many years ago and I can still see it as clear as ever. I can even see what I will be wearing. (Aortic aneurysm give out and I'm dead before I hit the ground.) I was recently referred to a cardiologist who told me that I was at risk for developing one later in life. I almost said, "I know" but thought better of it.