@triciact Funny you should mention money. Money was the last thing on my mind when I threw cards on her a few days ago but the Wealth Card (Thoth Ten Disks) came up first. The woman thinks she's going to be handsomely rewarded for her effort. And why not? The wealthiest stand to lose the most financially, if Biden is elected.
Or is she being paid by foreign interests?
Also - Justin Amash is considering a run for Prez - he was the one who got kicked out of the R party. He may also have just gotten on the foreign payroll, because if he does run as a third party candidate, for sure we're in for another 4 years of A Clodwork Orange. All the people I know who would either just not vote at all or hold their noses and vote for Biden would probably go to the Amash camp. I can hear their twsited justifications already - "Well at least it's not Trumo, how bad could he be? I hate Biden anyway." "He's no Jill Stein but he's ok."
BTW Jill Stein is also back on the Green Party ticket - heard this from the Pod Saves guys.
I read this article today and it goes into how Tara Reade changed her story and her tune and even her attitude about Biden when she suddenly also changed her feelings toward Putin/Russia.
"...Here is a more complete timeline of events, regarding Tara Reade’s actions toward both Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin.
- December 1992 — August 1993 — Tara Reade worked as a Senate aide in Joe Biden’s office.
- 2009 — Reade commended Biden for actions he has taken against domestic violence.
- 2017 — Reade repeatedly attacked Putin and Russia on Twitter for election interference and for Russian legislation that legalized domestic violence.
- 2017 — Reade repeatedly praised Joe Biden through tweets, retweets and “likes” on Twitter. On multiple occasions she boosts him for his work on helping end sexual assault.
- 2018 — Reade claims she liked Russia since she left Washington DC (Over a decade ago), and praised Putin and Russia over and over again. She also directly praised Putin for his treatment of women in multiple articles.
- January of 2019 — Reade first begins talking about her sexual harassment allegations against Joe Biden on Twitter.
- March, 2019 — Reade continues to https://medium.com/@shewrites94/who-let-the-cats-out-461cdf4dfca f" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">praise Putin.
- April, 2019 — Reade comes forward with her original allegations against Biden, but says his actions were NOT “sexualization,” but rather compared his actions toward her as being demeaning and treating her like a “pretty” lamp that is thrown away when it’s too bright. She also claimed that her story was not “a story about sexual misconduct.”
- September 2019 — Reade calls on Joe Biden to be investigated for his dealings with Ukraine.
- January, 2020 — Reade continues to praise Vladimir Putin on Twitter.
- March, 2020 — Reade comes forward again, this time claiming that Joe Biden did sexually assault her in 1993.
- March, 2020 — Reade tells Vox News that she started liking Putin and Russia in 2018 after “watching Noam Chomsky,” but no longer likes Putin after finding out about domestic violence in Russia. (note: in 2018 she claimed to have loved Russia since over a decade ago, and in 2017 she was posting tweets on her account related to Russia’s domestic violence.)"
This is an interesting analysis on how T and the GOP are using the Reade story to control the political narrative. And the media is, once again, playing along. It's déjà vu -- shades of what occurred with Hillary and her emails in 2016.
To any Trump supporter, I tell them this:
"If you believe Tara Reade is telling the truth about Biden, then you should support Trump giving a DNA sample to prove he didn't rape Jean Carroll."
I believe that Democrats need to stop playing the "if they aim low, we aim high" cheer. Trump and his allies hope that if they repeat lies over and over, then they will eventually convince everyone that the lies are truth and that the truth are lies. They did it before, and they are trying again.
You are going to have to go after Trump hard. If he complains about how the media treats him, then say, "well, if the job is too stressful for you, then step aside and let someone else take over." Use Trump's macho persona against him. If Trump and his supporters chide Democrats about the MeToo movement, then throw it back at them and ask them to provide evidence of Trump's innocence. For crying out loud! We are hearing the media talk about whether the Senate will release records to see if Tara Reade ever filed a complaint, but there is no talk about Trump proving his supposed "innocence" of a rape when he can provide a DNA sample to show whether or not his semen is on Ms. Carroll's dress! Every time Trump talks about how great the country is, mention the 30 million unemployed and the 68,000 plus deaths (as well as play back his comments about bleach, the coronavirus being the flu or a liberal hoax, etc.)
The time has come to stop playing meek and nice with these people. While we must not play politics with people's lives, we must still have the courage to call out Trump for what he is. What is good for the Goose (Biden) is good for the Gander (Trump). If Biden's Senate records need to be opened (which Biden agreed to), then Trump must also be willing to let Jean Carroll's attorneys swab his cheek to get a DNA sample. I say do both! If Biden is guilty, the truth will come out. If Trump is guilty, then the same applies. But I am sick and tired of Trump using the double standard on everyone and seemingly getting away with it. We need someone to attack him the way that he attacks us. Go after his children and expose their secrets. He has done the same to his opponents, so maybe it is time for him to get a taste of his own medicine.
I wish we could all be kind, but we can't be kind in a world that Trump created. No matter what we do, if he wins, then thousands more will die, as he will continue to waste time and withhold aid to his perceived enemies. While I have no illusions that deaths would have occurred if Hillary was the president, I cannot see Hillary withholding aid from conservative states because they were not "nice" enough to grovel on their knees and beg for aid that they are entitled to anyway (due to the fact we pay taxes to the federal government). We need to stop ignoring Trump and acting as though he is a school yard bully. He is far, far worse than that, and the time has come to stop pretending otherwise.
In short, we need to be firm with Trump and his supporters. We need to repeat Trump's failings over and over again until undecided voters see that four more years of Trump would be four more years of evil and cruelty being given official standing. If Trump and his allies want to shout out about liberals and socialism, then we must shout back with death tolls and unemployment numbers. We need to wake the nation up and remind them that this coronavirus will not magically go away on its own. We need someone who actually knows how to repair an economy that has tanked and a virus run amok. We need to portray Biden as a steady hand that we need now. Trump has already demonstrated what he will do. Just like his businesses, he will run them bankrupt and then leave with the profits. The US is not a business, and the time has come to remind the American people that.
I apologize if I seem frustrated, but I am so tired of watching Trump and his allies continue to get away with bad behavior and never suffer the consequences for it. We cannot continue to silently accept this treatment and expect that someone will come save us. The time has come for us to save ourselves, and the best way to do so if to actively, honestly, and forcibly shout the truth to as many as possible. Stop passively taking Trump's lies and hope people can see the truth themselves. Many can't. And many still won't believe us when we tell them the truth.
But...if we continue to repeat the truth over and over (just as Trump has repeated his lies over and over), then maybe, just maybe, enough people will pause to think.
That is the best we can hope for.
The time has come for us to save ourselves, and the best way to do so if to actively, honestly, and forcibly shout the truth to as many as possible.
Totally agree with you, @allyn. We have be warriors, put on our armor and stop taking the high road. It’s time for us to get down and mud-wrestle and show some grit.
I never associate lions with Trump, as they are loyal to their own pride and the mothers help to nurse other cubs of the pride. Also, I once recalled in an animal sacntuary, that there's a lion who is very overprotective and loyal to his white tiger companion.
(Some explaination. They grew up together in a roadside zoo for a while, before the sanctuary managed to rescue them. Because this sanctuary had a policy that if the rescued animals have been sticking around together, they will make sure they stay in the same large enclosure with each other, they never seperated. Hence the reasoning for the odd couple. A male lion and his white tiger wife.)
My point is Trump is nothing like that as far as I see. Which is why I never associate with him and lions. Lions I usually associate with some judges in my state, as they are magnificent and awe to look at. Trump is nothing like that.
However, a better analogy about Trump and his cronies is the Giant Asian Hornets. They are a pest, they did not do much to assist the eco-systems (Even the native Japanese environment hates these hornets), they sow destruction and death in their trail, almost unstoppable and playing nice with them is not an option.
Sorry to go off topic, but someone once associate them with lions, which I don't think that's the case.
Years ago before the Trump era, playing nice and taking the high road would be fine, but not now. We're going through surviour mode, where you cannot to be graceful and polite if you want to survive, sometimes you need to be harden if you want to get things done, even better not to cause more harm or danger.
@allyn Wow! preach it, Sister Allyn. You are bringing the FIRE!
You should cc that to the Biden campaign
I never associate lions with Trump, as they are loyal to their own pride and the mothers help to nurse other cubs of the pride. Also, I once recalled in an animal sacntuary, that there's a lion who is very overprotective and loyal to his white tiger companion.
I love that you have pointed out how beautiful lions are.
And in the same way, I don't like associating elephants with the GOP. However they have appeared in my visions as the GOP because that is a symbol they were given many years back. I don't even know the origin of it.
Elephants are matriarchal, caring, psychic, feeling, protective, and kind.
In the same vein, I never use to associate the American flag with the GOP, but they started touting that symbol in the last ten years. Where I live, republicans erect the American flag in front of their homes. There must have been some GOP project at some point to get their membership to erect American flags when patriotism is the furthest thing from their behavior. Their love is money, not the US.
As for the lion as Trump, the alt-right sees Trump as a lion because of his he once said his favorite line was that it is better to be a lion than a lamb, which was an oft-quoted line of Mussolini.
WOW - totally agree with you! One of the reasons I can't stand getting into it with T supporters is because I know the things you point out in my head but at my age I feel like I can't seem to put those points and thoughts into my mouth fast enough. One of the things I notice is many GOP and T supporters seem to have the GOP narrative ready and in their mouth before I can even get my point across. The GOP is always so much better with the talking points and repeating it over and over. I wish the dems would take their tactic with the TRUTH too!
Thanks Allyn!
I grew up being scared to speak. My vocal cords were damaged when I was a child (the result of severe pneumonia when I was two, which is one of the reasons I take the coronavirus so seriously, as I am all too familiar with what damage a respiratory illness can do). Thankfully, I had very caring parents who ensured I had services available to me at my school as well as tutors outside of school so I eventually learned how to speak properly. This resulted in having to learn how to think about a response quickly before speaking it. So I developed a habit of visualizing a conversation and then formulating my responses to someone's questions/comments in advance. I don't do this for normal, everyday conversations, but it is helpful to practice how to argue against opposing counsel in advance of a court date. Basically, by putting myself in my opponent's shoes and parroting their arguments, I can see the flaws, and thus prepare my answers in advance so they come out quickly and reflexively. It takes practice, but it is worth it for someone like me in my profession.
But back to the Trump supporters. It is actually easier than you may think to take Trump supporters down a notch or two. All you have to do is to understand their mindset and plan accordingly. I prepare by watching "Fox News," as that is the gospel as far as Trump supporters are concerned. So if you need some responses to the usual Trump Talking Points, here are a few oldies that I always keep in my back pocket.
1. Democrats and Liberals want Trump to fail and us to die!
If we wanted that, we would do nothing.
2. We trust Trump with the economy! Once the coronavirus is out of the way, he will bring the jobs back.
Trump steak. Trump casinos. Trump University. Trump is indeed a businessman, but one who takes the profits and leave his partners in financial hardship. You can't trust a man who has filed bankruptcy at least six times to know how to save the country's economy.
Further, since Teddy Roosevelt, every single Republican President has had a recession occur during their term, while only one Democratic President has. Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and now Trump have all had economic downturns. And yet you trust a REPUBLICAN with the economy? If you want the economy to come back, you might as well vote for a Democrat, since they may a career cleaning up the economic destruction that the Republicans always leave behind.
3. It's not Trump's fault that the coronavirus is killing people!
True, but that is like saying that Captain Smith was not responsible for so many deaths on the Titanic. Because Smith didn't communicate to his sailors that the ship was really sinking, many of the lifeboats left half-full, which resulted in an additional 400 plus lives that were lost that didn't need to be. So while Captain Smith didn't cause the iceburg from hitting the Titanic, his negligence resulted in more deaths. Trump is similarly guilty of this neglect. He downplayed the danger ("The coronavirus is the flu! A liberal hoax!") He didn't take steps to protect the country. As a result, thousands more have died that didn't need to.
4. But the deaths were the Democrats fault! They impeached Trump and distracted him!
The impeachment vote ended on February 3, almost a month before the first reported coronavirus death in the US. Trump could have used that time to prepare. But instead he went on a victory tour and fired people he felt were his enemies. That time could have been better spent to prepare for the virus.
5. But Trump did do something! He closed the border to China! That slowed the virus from getting here!
Congratulations! He stopped the Chinese from getting in! But did he ask Americans who were coming back from China to go into quarantine for 14 days (Seriously, how do they think the virus got here in the first place if the Chinese were barred from coming here?) The virus obviously had to come in that way. If Trump was serious about keeping the virus out, he would have demanded that all returning Americans stay in quarantine for two weeks to ensure they didn't have the virus. But he didn't. Further, he didn't do any preparation before the virus broke out here, so those few extra weeks were pointless.
6. But the govenors are responsible! They weren't prepared, so they caused the deaths.
While the governors do hold power, Trump failed as the President. First, he refused to buy PPE, which caused the states to go to foreign governments to buy it on their own. Had he been responsible, he would have bought the PPE and then distributed it to all the states instead of having the states try to outbid one another. Second, Trump could have used his authority to force companies to mass produce the necessary equipment. Instead, he used that power for meat processing centers! (By the way, anyone know whether or not meat handled by a sick meat process server can contaminate anyone? Because I don't know, and I won't be buying any meat until I hear it from the actual experts!) Third, Trump hasn't done anything that someone who is semi-competent would do. He hasn't expressed heart-felt condolences to those who lost loved ones (or any condolences, for that matter). He hasn't lauded any of the bravery or sacrifices of the doctors and nurses on the front lines. He hasn't called for unity (Bush did that, only to get shot down by Trump in one of Trump's twitter fits). He hasn't done anything except make the situation worse.
Is this really the person you want in charge of a crisis? He had a chance to show what a great manager and businessman he could be, and all he has done is made the situation worse.
7. But it's the Democrats' fault that the economy is down!
How? Trump could have used the time he had (two months if you look at January, at least one month if you look at February 3, after the Impeachment excuse) to quarantine returning Americans and to purchase tests from WHO (or, if you trust Trump that WHO was bad, to develop new tests.) He could have advised Americans not to travel out of the country until the situation became clearer. He could have issued national guidelines to assist the country and work toward containing a virus in such a way yet ensure that the economy could be opened sooner with the use of massive testing, a national supply of PPE, and a system in place to identity Covid-19 carriers early enough to stop further spread. (Note: South Korea and Iceland were able to do this, and they were able to open their economy up and keep their death toll down. The reasons? Country wide testing, common-sense limitations and social distancing, and PPE supplies for everyone,)
8. But the Democrats want to shut the economy down so Trump will lose!
WRONG! Democrats want the economy to open SAFELY! That includes nationwide testing, PPE supplies for everyone, and a nationwide message for everyone to do their part to keep us all safe.
Who is the one person who could have done this? Trump! But he didn't use his authority to prepare massive testing or obtain PPE supplies. Instead, he has systematically tried to bankrupt the states by making them do all the work. He encourages people with guns to rise up and demonstrate in large numbers against social distancing, thus trying to undermine the governors. He even refused to wear a mask today, thus sending a message to the American people that protective measures are beneath him (thus encouraging others to not do them either). If South Korea and Iceland can do this, then why can't we!?
You Republicans accuse us Democrats of being un-Christian. Yet you would willingly blame us because we want to save lives while your members get your guns and march against governors in an attempt to intimidate them? Which one of us is more Christian? The ones who try to save lives are the ones who threatens them?
9. But why should Trump and the Republicans bail out the Blue States!?
Let me understand you...(deep breath). You were ok when Republicans bailed out Wells Fargo in 2008, but you believe a STATE is not "too big to fail?" So...your solution is for states like New York to declare bankruptcy?
And what is it with this idea about "Blue State Bailouts?" According to the data from 2018, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Colorado (all Democratic states) were the five states who paid the Federal government the most out of the 50 states. Oh! And the five states who receive the most federal money? (aka-"bailouts!") Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky (Seriously, McConnell?), Alabama and Ohio. These states are Republican (with the exception of Virginia, which turned Democrat after the elections in 2018.)
Perhaps the way to solve this is to give the money back to the states since the Federal Government isn't using it for anything. Let New York get all its money back that it gave the Federal Government so they can use it for its citizens. And Kentucky? Well, they receive more money from the Federal Government then they send, so there is no reason to give them the money back. Maybe McConnell can ask for Kentucky to declare bankruptcy?
10. But Hillary's emails!?
But Trump's tax records!?
Seriously, what is with you Trump supporters and your fixation on Hillary?! Are you guys in love with her or something? Because it seems to me you have an unnatural obsession with her! You guys even went so far as to make her testify for 11 hours in front of Congress! Now, I will be the first to admit that while I respect Hillary, she is not exactly known for being a riveting speaker! That is why New York businessmen with insomnia paid money to listen to her speak for two hours. They needed the sleep! But you guys had her talking for 11 hours! For FREE! If that isn't the definition of love and obsession, I don't know what is!
And how do Hillary's emails have to do with Trump's negligence on the coronavirus that has caused more American deaths than the Vietnam War?
11. You Democrats are with the liberal media! You are so unfair to Trump.
You know, for all of your talk about how macho Trump is, he is pretty whiny! He is a 70 something supposedly savvy businessman, and yet he stresses about the fact that the media and a good portion of the media doesn't like him? No offense to whiny, prissy, bullying teenage girls, but that is exactly how he acts. Instead of approaching the person he has a problem with face-to-face, he gets on social media and engages in a campaign of name-calling and "lets all gang up on this person!"
At best, Trump is a coward who can't fight his own battles. At worst, he is a hypocrite who tries to act like a man while simultaneously acts out like a stereotypical whiny teenage girl! Should we start calling him Donna Trump?
If Trump can't handle criticism, then he needs to quit! Simple as that.
(Disclaimer: I am a woman, and no, I don't believe that fighting one's battles is a man thing, while seeking support of social media is a female thing. I fight my own battles. But I despise anyone who doesn't confront the person and instead goes on media to try to bully them through his or her supporters, be it Twitter or Facebook. Sadly, I grew up in a time where it was unseemly for girls to fight, so many female bullies took to social media as a new means to torment their victims without facing any consequences.
Having said that, I find it rather amusing when I am arguing with a male Trump supporter and use their own underlying machsocny against them. By taking their preconceived notions about "all good things are male, all bad things are female" ideas and twisting them by pointing out that Trump, their "man of all men," acts like a spoiled teenage girl who can't fight her own battles without using Twitter as a coward, then they are at a loss and often quit arguing with me. The one who didn't said that "I should know about female things, seeing as how I argue like one!" I responded by saying "Good! Because that means I am winning!"
So I don't believe in gender roles. But I love to use those ideas against Trump supporters. It is so...satisfying. I hope no one here is offended).
12. Trump is God's chosen one! You guys kill babies!
Ok, so Trump is God's chosen one? What is your logic for that, exactly? Does the fact that he has had three marriages, multiple affairs, and paid off porn stars make him Godly? Or the fact that he once said in a television interview that he doesn't ask God for forgiveness on anything (Family Leadership Summit on 7/18/2015.) Or the fact that he brags, lies, curses, and basically act as Non-Christian as possible?
By your definition, if America does what God wills, then America will be blessed. When America goes against God's will, then we are punished. I have heard for years that America was cursed for allowing gays to walk around, which is why God sent the AIDS virus.
If your logic is correct, then why is it that just after the Republicans voted to save Trump from impeachment, then the coronavirus hit and the global economy tanked? Shouldn't the country be blessed for keeping Trump? Or is God telling us something else?
As for the "killing babies?" No, I don't kill babies. Neither so other Democrats. But like the vast majority of the country, I believe in exceptions. And all the women you demonize are someone's baby too! Perhaps you want us to be like Ireland, where they killed women over their belief that all abortions are bad (see the case of Savata Halappanvar in 2012, a woman in Ireland who went to a hospital when she was 17 weeks pregnant after experiencing back pain, only to learn that she was suffering an incomplete miscarriage. She asked for an abortion, but was denied because the fetus's heart was still beating. She developed septic shock and died a horrible, painful death. Had her request for an abortion to complete the miscarriage had been granted, she certainly would have lived. The outrage over this event caused Ireland to change the law in 2013).
13. You liberals are just after our guns!
Why? We have our own. And we also know how to use them. And since 3 million more people voted against Trump than with him in 2016, I say that your side is outnumbered.)
(This is the best possible response to a Trump supporter. I have yet to meet one that was able to respond to that answer. It makes them shut up so quickly, as well as remind them of the fact that they are the minority. They want to make you feel that there is something wrong with YOU for not supporting Trump. But by pointing out that more people voted for Hillary than for Trump, it reminds them that they are the minority, since the majority of the country doesn't agree with them.)
Now, I admit that my responses are not "one size fits all." Remember that I live in a deep red state where the area is basically 95% Republican, so I have had a lot of practice in dealing with Trump supporters. Yes, I do believe in peaceful responses. But as I said before, we can no longer afford to be silent and hope that people will do the right thing. We tried that before and it didn't work. Our silence and our ignoring Trump's antics as though he was an infant has only impowered him to continue bullying. The time has come to engage these Trump supporters and challenge them. Instead of rolling our eyes and walking away as they spout off lie after lie, we need to calmly stand our ground and respond by repeating the truth over and over until they walk away. It is stressful, of course. I rather jump into a tub full of snakes or jump out of an airplane than deal with a Trump supporter, but it must be done. Because if we continue the path of peaceful non-resistance, then Trump will win by pure force of will because he will use every possible tactic necessary to win.
We have to call the Trump supporters out. We have to show them that we are not afraid. That they can hold their rallies and wave their guns from now to November 3. But if we walk away and say nothing when they confront us and yell out their lies, they feel impowered. That they won. And others are watching.
A few weeks ago, I put a Trump supporter in his place (he accused me of coming to take his guns, and I responded with the answer I have listed above.) After he walked away upon listening to the applause my response received from onlookers, I was approached by a woman who told me she was a long time Republican who planed to vote for Biden. She thanked me for standing up to the Trump supporter and for letting her know that "there are still people who stand up for decency." This was a stranger! Someone I never met! But hopefully my standing up to a Trump supporter convinced her that she didn't have to fear them and that she shouldn't feel timid or reluctant about voting for a Democrat.
In short, I still stand for peace and respect. But I believe the time has come to use our own boldness and strength to spread the truth about Trump and to stop the Trump supporters from their bullying once and for all. We need to stop avoiding them and repeat the truth over and over as much as possible. Why should we be afraid to? Why should we be reluctant to stand up and proudly hold our heads high around the Trump supporters. We need to stop being afraid to engage them. They should be ashamed to be before us! And we need to stop pretending otherwise. The world is watching us, and the voters will vote for those they believe are stronger. We need to show them that we are strong, and that we don't need a bunch of guns and banners to prove it. All we need is the truth and the ability to speak it often without fear.
Let's get started.
I hope these responses help, by the way. Feel free to use them the next time a Trump supporter bothers you. Hopefully, you will feel the same warm feeling of satisfaction I do when a Trump supporter walks away in defeat because his lies were unable to beat your truth. The look of confusion and self-doubt as they are unable to respond is truly fulfilling in a time when cruelty has become the norm and truth is spurned as weakness. That might be the way the world works now, but that it doesn't need to be within the reach of my arms. And my arms are powerful enough to connect with others and produce a WALL of truth that no Trump supporter, lies from Fox News, an armed militia, or even Trump and his cronies can't break.
Wow Allyn, first of all I didn't know you were a female! ?
You wowed me with your intelligence and witty responses to T supporters. I will keep this and save it as my ace up the sleeve for any T supporters who say this crap to me (because they do). I truly appreciate you and how you respond to them. It's true, watching Fox news would help me "arm myself" more but I truly can't stand doing so. Just hearing the lies and seeing T makes me want to vomit. I'm glad you have the stomach for it. My husband actually does that too, so he's "armed" as well. He has so many T supporting friends and business associates he must keep up with what they are seeing so he knows how to respond to them.
I guess I'm much more emotional so my thoughts get clouded when a T supporter comes at me. I let my emotions take over instead of remaining steadfast and clear which is why my brain and mouth don't always function when it comes to a response. When I was younger I didn't have this problem as much, as a matter of fact I joined the debate club in middle school and early high school argued for a pro-choice stance. Post menopause brain has set in and has made me less able to debate like I did at one time. Additionally, my anxiety and disdain for everything involving T and the corrupt GOP has made me very upset. I agree we must stand up for what is right.
Thank you for your wonderful response! I will save it. ? ?
You are welcomed! But please know that I can't stomach Fox News either. Sadly, they seem to be on the TVs in every waiting room here, so I have learned to deal with them. But while I do get outraged by the lies they tell, I try to imagine them in a courtroom, and I am arguing a case against them. This helps, because I can see them as "attorneys" (aka-they probably can't stand Trump either, but they represent him and thus must regurgitate this B.S. because, as attorneys, it is their job to tell their client's story to the jury, no matter how stupid it sounds). Trying to see Fox News in that light makes it more tolerable.
Like you, I also get emotional about Trump. That is why I have prepared these comments in advance so they are ready when a Trump supporter gives me trouble. When emotions run high, it is good to have a back-up plan (pre-made response) in advance so I can turn the tables against the Trump supporter and use his own tactics against him.
In one major way, Fox News is better at preparing it's viewers for these arguments because they give their viewers clear, concise talking points that they just repeat over and over. CNN, MSNBC, and other news groups don't do that, thus leaving their viewers at somewhat of a disadvantage when dealing with a determined Trump supporter.
For this reason, I encourage everyone on this site to look at some of the points (aka "lies") that Trump supporters use and come up with pre-planed counterpoints. Or you can use some of mine. Because I guarantee that when the election comes closer, the Trump supporters will be out there to hassle anyone and everyone they can into submission via intimidation. Now is the time to use their own tactics against them. No, I don't mean seeking out Trump supporters and getting into an argument with them. But they will approach you and try to bombard you with their lies. They win when you roll your eyes, walk away, or stay silent. They think they won, and it only encourages them to do it again and again. Onlookers see this, and they too feel intimidated. This is classic bullying behavior.
Now, many Trump supporters are not so keen to engage me in a battle of wits. They know that I am prepared with my own responses, and that I will actually use their own values against them when I do so, which leaves them feeling venerable and unsure, so they walk away. That is why I enjoy taunting Trump and comparing him to a "bratty teenage girl" whenever he tweets, especially when I am arguing with a male Trump supporter. They tend to think of themselves as "macho" and thus the ultimate definition of masculinity. But when I point out that Trump doesn't have the guts to confront someone face to face and instead turns to social media to vent his rage, Trump's followers have to deal with the fact that Trump's actions (in their mind, at least) are very similar to the behaviors of a teenage girl who is using Facebook to turn all her friends against another girl. The Trump men can't reconcile the two, and thus are left with the uncomfortable visual image I have left for them. They then have to ask themselves that if Trump is so manly, then why can't he fight his own battles instead of getting on social media and calling for his friends to help him. That is not something they would do, so why would they support Trump when he does it?
While I somewhat hate doing this (I am uncomfortable promoting stereotypes of genders in any form), I feel that this is one of the only ways to get my point across. By taking their deep-seated values and using them in my favor, I leave them emotional and confused, so they no longer engage me. Further, any onlookers are left feeling that anti-Trump supporters are stronger, so they naturally gravitate to the strong and thus are more likely to vote that way. It isn't a bad thing, necessarily, that people vote for the stronger position, because people naturally gravitate towards the ones that they feel have the most support (so not as to be considered outsiders). But we have to demonstrate that strength in a dignified and yet firm way in order to counter Trump and his supporters.
I hope you take heart and use some of my suggestions when you are next confronted by a Trump supporter. Remember, this is your country too. You have a right to express you opinion too. The right to free speech does not mean that we have to endure lies simple as a means of respect for those who disagree with us. Trump supporters have used our kindness and respectful silence to their advantage. Therefore, they have made it a liability to be kind and respectful. Only by making them afraid to look like fools and refusing to back away just to feed their sense of self-entitlement will we be able to break their power, and push Trump and his supporters back to the darkness of society where they belong so that we can finally get to work to repair the damage they caused.
Take care and good luck!
Thanks Allyn, wondering what do you say when they say nasty things about Obama. How he was one of the worst etc. (which my response is usually to tout his accomplishments and how lovely and intelligent and caring he was). They seem to always say how bad, how bad Obama care is etc. Wondering what you say about him?
Thanks Allyn, wondering what do you say when they say nasty things about Obama.
Hi TriciaCT, I know you didn't ask me, but I've been all around and back again on this one, so hoping it is okay, I'd like to add my two cents.
I say nothing, nada. I leave the conversation. If it's an email to me, I delete it and do not respond. In the past, when I've responded to these kinds of remarks, I have been very sorry that I did. The outcome was always dark. We are grappling with darkness and it pulls us into it.
If it's in person, I ignore it. If they continue speaking, I say "Stop." That's it. One person I've known for years who loves me and who I love once said to me about my politics, "I am just so disappointed in you." I ignored it. They did not continue. But when someone close like a relative or old friend keeps going on the topic, I tell them to stop, that it will harm our friendship. If they don't stop, although that has never happened with a close relative, I leave the conversation. If their friendship is not important to me, it ends there. Either way, I do not respond.
Your "2 cents" is ALWAYS welcome. ? Yes that has been my typical response and one that I generally employ. However, the past couple months I had two females who I am close to want to engage me in conversations (we've discussed this here before) and I reacted like you did. I chose not to engage, however they "threw" their thoughts at me anyway. I want - if this happens again - to be "armed" at least with something to say because I am tired of just shutting down the conversation entirely with these two particular ones.
I typically react like you suggested, but there's a part of me that has always run away from things that hurt or annoyed me and I do have a breaking point. I want to (with words only) fight back since I feel like I'm fighting for what's right and I can't understand how they can be so blind and ignorant about what is right in front of them that is causing so much pain to the entire country - let alone the world.
And like you, if they don't stop I will just let them go. Surrounding myself with light is more important to me. ? ?
posted by @jeanne-mayell,
I say nothing, nada. We are grappling with darkness and it pulls us into it.
@jeanne-mayell, I agree with your response to those who try to hook you. I will admit, though, that my temptation is to fight, but fighting isn't an option for me. I have health issues and limited energy reserves, so I refuse to deplete myself by engaging in an argument with a die-hard T supporter. So it's more out of self-preservation.
@triciact, I understand the post-menopausal brain. PMB plus a chronic autoimmune condition often creates major brain fog when I speak. I can communicate well through writing, probably because I can take the time to formulate my thoughts and arguments.
That brain fog, and the fact that I live in a blue area of Virginia, makes it easier for me to not engage. I am almost always exhausted, so I don't have the energy to debate. The most I can muster is an eye roll (? that's for you, @laura-f!) Those deluded T supporters will choose to believe what they believe, no matter what you say. They may feel the sting of your argument, on some level know that it's true, and shut them up for the moment, but they'll hold on for dear life to that sinking ship.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if I was living in a predominantly red state. (Most likely be a hermit -- which coincidentally fits into our lives right now!) For those of you surrounded by all of the T die-hards, I admire your ability to maintain your sanity, humor, kindness and grace. God bless all of you.
@jeanne-mayell is correct. When I have family members and close friends who love Trump, we have reached an understanding that we do not talk politics. Period. If they do, I cut ties (I have done this to one person who refused to stop after various warnings because he was trying to "educate" me.).
But I am not talking about family members or friends. I am talking about the flag waving, gun totting, idiots that you barely know (in my case, it is usually because I represented them or their family members). As I said, my home is 95% Republican, and there are a few prominent families who are Democrat. Therefore, once they learn my last name, they automatically assume I am part of one of those families (which is true), so they automatically know I am a Democrat and thus become a target.
So...what do I do? Change my last name? Disown my beliefs and family? Move away from my home?And for what? To appease a bunch of people who are trying to be argumentative with me? How would they feel if I approached them in a supermarket and started making fun of conservatives? I have the right to be in whatever party I want to be, so I will engage in battle if need be.
Believe me when I say that I tried to turn the other cheek and ignore them. I truly did. But they kept coming back. They took my silence as shame for my beliefs and fear of them, which further encouraged them. And then I learned that by mentally preparing responses for all their talking points in advance, I could put them on the defensive. Now, many of them avoid me and/or are respectful when they speak to me. Those who have watched my exchanges have told me that I have a dry, sarcastic sense of humor that breaks down their Fox New talking point. By being funny and causing people to laugh at them, they feel a taste of the humilation they try to inflict on me. So they stop, because they know I won't passively accept it.
As to your question about Obama, here are a few responses for the most common Obama related complaints:
1. Obamacare is ruining this country! It is forcing us to buy insurance! It's Socialized medicine!
Oh, yes! The idea that an insurance company is prohibited from denying insurance to someone based on a pre-existing condition is so awful! And the idea that everyone should get insurance so they pay something in? How terrible!
But seriously, you object to everyone buying health insurance (and if you don't, you pay a tax penalty), but you have no problem whatsoever with the fact that you are forced, by law, to have car insurance when you drive? How does that make sense!? If someone who doesn't have car insurance drives and wrecks, then everyone else has to pick up the tab. Further, it is a crime in many states and can cause you to lose your license. So how is Obamacare any different? Everyone uses the health care system, so everyone whould have insurance to make it easier for everyone else! And it isn't even a crime if you don't do it!
And as to socialize medicine? Should we get rid of all social programs? Including social security? Because there isn't that much difference between the two! So if you want to get rid of all socialism, you better be prepared to get rid of your pension too!
2. Obama is the reason why we are suffering right now! He left us unprepared for the virus!
Uh...Obama actually left a task force for Trump, and Trump decided to cut in in 2018. Further, Trump has been in office for almost 3 and a half years (although sometimes it feels it has been much longer). Are you telling me that three and a half years wasn't enough time for Trump?
Explain to me again why you think Trump would be better at revitalizing the economy once the pandemic is over?
3. Obama is (insert whatever insult or lie here).
Seriously, what is with you Trump people and your obsession with Obama? Do you harbor an obsession with him? If that why Trump dyes himself a shade of orange so he is dark like Obama? Because I got bad news for you. Trump's shade is so awful that it looks like he tried to paint his face for a Tennessee Volunteers game, but made a mistake with the paint shade and used lead paint, which has made the effect permanent.
Look, you don't have to pretend! We know that Trump secretly loves Obama. No one would obsess more over a guy they barely talk to. But Trump doesn't have to act all coy and pretend he hates Obama. He doesn't have to insult Obama to get his attention. Just tell Trump to be honest with his feelings. We'll understand. And it's not like he is faithful to his wives anyway!
(I used this argument once and caused a bit of a ruckus. The store clerks were still laughing as the annoying Trump supporter stomped away muttering obscenities under his breath while I looked round innocently and asked "Why is that guy upset? I just said I support Trump in his attempts to woe Obama?" The clerks now know me by name and say high every time I enter their store.)
I hope this gives you something to work with. Or at least a laugh over my ever-eternal battle to bring "love and understanding" to Trump and his supporters.
And if that doesn't work, look up my postings concerning SADS (Small and Abnormal Dick Syndrome). I have already sent a letter to Trump asking for him to admit the problem, get himself "fixed" (I offered to do a donation for a pair of solid gold manicure scissors, as they would be big enough to do the job), and then declare his birthday (June 14) as National SADS day.
At the very least, you will ensure that the Trump supporters you talk to won't be able to get what you said out of their heads, and it helps tarnish their perfect mental image of Trump. It is a small and thankless task to deal with rabid Trump supporters, but it is also a bit of a guilty pleasure. ;)
Always an enlightening pleasure to read your brilliant posts! I can see why you are an attorney... I would definitely like to see you in the Senate ..?
It seems that Drumpf has fallen so far down the dementia rabbit hole, he can't even convince his rabid followers of his lame ' DARVO ' games at this point. Where is that little ol' straight jacket anyway .....
I have a fav T-shirt emblazoned with ' You Have The Right To Remain Radical! We Still Have A Damn CONSTITUTION '
It raises a few eyebrows .. hehe ... tho I just smile and walk on....