This thread is for Bernie discussions. 🙂
Hey, I have a question for all the seers here. I've been looking at the prediction page and nowhere do I see Bernie quitting. As much as I love Bernie and would like for his policies to be set in place, I do think he is the one man who has the biggest chance of losing against Trump.
Does anyone see him leaving the candidacy and dropping out of the race?
@blackandwhite, don’t think there is much chance of him dropping out unless there is a health event. But we haven’t seen it.
I just came from an evening with a some people who feel that Bernie has one of the best chances of beating Trump depending on who runs with him. People want big change and many youth and also Trump supporters who are anti-establishment are drawn to Bernie. So there are a lot of opinions flying around.
For the last year, I've been seeing that he would waver in and out, and ultimately out, of the race—for what I feel could be health-related reasons. He's had a heart attack since then, obviously, though so far, he's hanging in. And if anyone can reengineer a timeline with some sheer old fashioned determination, he's the one.
I love Bernie, and I'm open. But I've also been reading the cogent breakdowns of mostly fair-minded people who, like you, feel Bernie can't win and why. Some of the points made in the link aren't wrong.
It's true that Bernie simply doesn't have a substantial record of legislative accomplishments which he either sponsored or co-sponsored (shockingly few, in fact), and that the reason for this may well be because he isn't especially skilled at shared leadership or consensus-building. More troubling, perhaps, is the fact that many of Bernie's supporters aren't loyal Democrats, willing to come out in support of the eventual nominee, even if it isn't Bernie. Or—just as importantly—for Democrats running for Senate.
I'm still woefully undecided, so I'm thinking hard about every fact and factor that may matter.
I also read someone (don't recall who now) who made a good point: Bernie could really exercise some leadership moxie (and maybe even smart campaign strategy) by stepping out of the race and declaring his support of Warren, maybe securing himself a VP post. They're aligned politically; he'd be showing his respect for Warren (and therefore women, since she challenged him on that point); and his declaration would easily urge many of the so-called Bros in his base to get behind her too.
For a progressive to actually win, I wonder if that isn't the best idea. (Literally just wondering aloud because I don't know..arg.) There's a fairly large percentage of my inner debate committee that's arguing for the middle-of-the-roaders, since I really want to see those disaffected former GOPers voting our way.
"Incremental change" is rational, I suppose. It also gives me hives.
Well then. Sorry for the derail. 😉
I think what we need is a fabulous President/Vice President ticket, two people lots and lots of voters can get behind. Not sure Bernie is the man. But I am voting Democrat no matter what.
Here is my 2 cents about Bernie's health:
I'm not feeling optimistic about Bernie's health. Remember when he had that heart attack - last September?? According to his numerology chart, he transited an S around his birthday.(his birthday is 9/20) Whenever I see an 'S' in someone's chart, I know something BIG and sudden is about to happen to them-and it's always personal so I have no way of knowing what will occur. And, unfortunately, he is transiting ~another~ 'S' around his birthday this September. It may not be health related, but he is 79 years old with a history of heart problems. Or it could have something to do with his campaign. But whatever happens, this does give me reason to not want to back him for potus.
I was one of the folks who have said all along that Warren with Bernie as VP would be the ticket that could win. I have also thought Warren and Mayor Pete as VP would be an alternate choice. I would rather have Warren as POTUS.
To me there are two different scenarios though that affect who should be on the ticket. 1. If T is still running and 2. If T is gone who would be the GOP candidate? I think Mitt Romney would run. IF that happens and Nikki Haley is vp running mate then the dems have to change some of their strategies.
I sense Bernie’s time window for President has passed. I firmly believe he would have won in 2016, and it saddens me that didn’t happen. But I don’t feel it will happen for him in 2020. I also have mixed feelings about Bernie. I feel there is something about him that is hidden, but I can’t say what that is. I don’t know if it’s news that will disillusion some people, or perhaps it has to do with further health problems. For as much as I support some of his bold ideas and love his fighting spirit, I feel that his ego sometimes blinds him. You always know where Bernie stands, which I’ve always loved. But Bernie is also stubborn as hell, and that’s not always a good thing when you want to get things done. I experience Warren as having that same spirit, but without that ax to grind.
I sense that in general people are craving peace and stability. Something/someone to calm their nervous systems. So people can “regroup” and see where we go from here. Does that mean our best chances are with, as @Vestralux discussed in an earlier post, a “middle of the roader” who makes incremental change? I just let out a sigh of disappointment – fortunately no hives, Vestralux! -- but could that be? I’m so sick and tired of the status quo. Would it even be worth combining a moderate/progressive Democratic ticket, or would that seem a bit schizo? Whoever it is needs to be authentic, absolutely fearless and have the moxie to take T head on.
But like I said, there’s something to be said about having time to regroup. My mind keeps going back to a job that I once had with a small publishing house. The CEO was an exciting but brazen, shameless guy (shades of the orange one). We didn’t know the full extent of his unethical shenanigans until after we lost our jobs. I’ll spare you the details, but the company went under because of his misuse of funds. It was sad because the client base was still there. Up until that point I had worked in a few creative fields, including that publishing house, but after having that experience, I felt unsteady and exhausted. So I deliberately took a job that was stable, conventional, rules legally and firmly established – and in many ways, boring. Fortunately I was emotionally fed by the friendships I made there that helped to ground and heal me. I just needed to get my bearings and regroup, so I could decide where to go from there.
I’m still not seeing a Dem in the WH in 2021. I’ve already mentioned this in some of my earlier posts. But the thing is, I feel peaceful about it and I don’t know why. Perhaps it’s because politically things are confusing and still in flux, so with no Dem nominee, the energy is not yet there to accurately determine an outcome? I’m not totally convinced of that, but maybe. I do feel some of this hinges on what happens with T from here until the election. I do believe that T will be gone which gives me enormous peace, but I would take no pleasure in seeing an R leading this country. An R will continue many of the same policies as T, but would probably be smarter and sneakier about it. Not to mention the possible continued presence of BillyB, who is dangerous and also needs to go!
The other thing I’m not sensing as strongly is N. Haley, who I’ve also posted about a few times. Funny, but up until recently, I saw her working with Rs behind the scenes and standing at the inaugural platform. I am now seeing a dark-hard man gaining prominence, but for now, not at the podium.
What’s most important is that we get T’s butt booted out of there. And I continue to pray for divine guidance and protection for all of the candidates. I am hopeful because I see a blue House and Senate in 2021, although not as blue as I would like (more time needs to be spent focused on those Congressional races!) I am also hopeful because I see a bold resurgence of progressive values and big changes in 2025 onward.
@triciact II moved your great post about the general 2020 election to the thread on the entire election. https://www.jeannemayell.com/community/u-s-presidential-candidates-for-2020/2020-election/#post-20238
Community, I'm making a likely vain attempt to get a little organized by setting up threads for each candidate and one for the 2020 election and even one for the congressional races. It might not work since we are a fluid community of intuitive types who want to just respond to each other and that is good. Maybe I shouldn't even try to get us organized in this way! The risk is that people stop posting because the discussion got moved. I will try it this one time and if it causes more problems than it solves I will just let things flow however they flow. 🙂
@vestralux I just saw a USA Today article and it mentions the bills that Bernie has co-sponsored that have been passed. It seems that there's some misinformation going around about his effectiveness as a legislator:
"Perhaps the most ridiculous claim is that Bernie hasn’t accomplished enough. This ignores the more than 200 bills he has co-sponsored that became law — including the 2014 Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act he negotiated with conservative lawmakers John McCain and Jeff Miller to reform the Department of Veterans Affairs."
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@hazyjane Thanks for posting and welcome to our forum. Please send me that link via my contact form and I will post it. Security doesn't allow newcomers to post links . That changes soon enough, though, so keep posting!
Factcheck.org has a story about misleading being passed around about lawmakers' effectiveness.
They point to an organization called that rates lawmakers that claims Sanders did next to nothing. They said it was wrong
This is an except from Factcheck.org:
A popular meme takes aim at prominent lawmakers by referencing the number of bills they’ve had passed. But it uses an erroneous number — and omits context. Full Story
A post shared by thousands of Facebook users criticizes three well-known members of Congress by citing an incorrect and out-of-context figure to question their legislative effectiveness.
“67 combined years … 6 bills passed,” the viral meme reads, above photos of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Maxine Waters, who are both Democrats, and Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent who is running for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.
The meme leaves the impression that the lawmakers, combined, have only had “6 bills passed.” That’s wrong.
Pelosi, for example, was the primary sponsor of seven pieces of legislation that were enacted, according to GovTrack.us, a website that profiles members of Congress and tracks the status of legislation. That includes major legislation, such as the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, as well as commemorative resolutions, such as naming of a post office.
Waters and Sanders sponsored five and seven bills, respectively, that became law. All three were co-sponsors on many more bills that became law, GovTrack’s data show. Pelosi co-sponsored 414 successful bills; Sanders, 216; Waters, 329."
I don't usually post whole articles but I think it necessary to get to the truth here. I have written to a private website that posts legislator's records that seems to say that Sanders does next to nothing. His site is the first to appear when you google bernie sanders' legislative record. Shame if it is spreading misleading inform. But I think the guy who runs it is honest. So what is the truth about Bernie?
Here's the link to the article that explains Bernie Sanders' record correctly: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/09/bernie-sanders-could-beat-donald-trump-2020-column/4694526002/
This is emotionally exhausting for me. I listen to people's political speeches every day at work and invariably I always feel depressed and ill afterwards. Half of them are trumpers, one is an amoral opportunist who thinks he's smarter than he actually is and the rest are terrified of going too far left with Bernie or Warren. No one seems to like Warren, with some saying they'd vote for Trump over her. As a Canadian I just want to scream bloody hell can't you people see what's happening already, how can you be so nonchalant about the current orange incumbent? How can you not realize that change has to happen, revolutionary change has to happen in this country otherwise this slide to fascism will only continue. I can't vote so my opinions hardly matter, but I do live here so I feel affected.
If I could vote I'd vote Bernie. For me it's 100% about policy and his simply appeal to me the most, especially medicare for all and free college. I don't benefit from the second one but it appeals to my sense of fairness. Elizabeth Warren is a top favourite of mine as well. I understand the short comings of Bernie and intuitively I too do not feel he will go all the way, even though I want him or Elizabeth to win.
What gets me most is when others say things like we just want to go back to normal, meaning get rid of the tangerine tyrant. But in my head I always think normal for whom? For the 30 000 plus people who die every year because they lack health insurance. For the people who have health insurance but lose their livelihoods every year because of unforeseen bills. For the people of Flint Michigan who are still drinking poisoned water. For the students who graduate with crippling debt and no job opportunities. I could go on. I am tired, exhausted, normal is not even close to good enough, something dramatic has to change. If it doesn't then there will be another Trump, next time it might be someone with a brain which will be more dangerous for all of us.
My heart hurts, I have been living in this depression for a long time and lately it's gotten worse. The closer the 2020 election comes the more my anxiety picks up, I just want things to get better. My honest belief is that any of the democratic contenders would be a good deal better than trump, but I'm so afraid that some of these people don't realize the dire straits this country is in. Someone like Joe Biden won't change much and that will mean that those people who are angry and disenfranchised now will likely pick another trump in the election after that. The youth of this country as well is tired and wants big change, incrementalism simply won't do, I feel very strongly about this.
Since 2016 I've been studying fascism because I wanted to understand what happened. My conclusion from reading the works of people like Timothy Snyder is that most people are not fundamentally decent or good, they are self serving and will throw others under the bus if they think they must to preserve their own economic fortunes. Scapegoating is an ancient human societal problem that occurs when people feel under threat, and scapegoating can lead to genocide. As a species we are not empathic enough to care, no one at my work place seems to bat an eyelash about those children at the border. They are all too worked up about how little they like Warren to care that actual human lives are at stake. Out of sight out of mind seems to be our species mantra.
I have now said so many horrible things that I shudder at what the response will be. Please understand that I know the people of this community do have empathy, bucket loads of it. That's why this community is so special, I wish the world were like this. I apologize in advance for offending anyone, in particular since I am not a regular poster I really want to state that I don't want to offend anyone. My depressing rants just came out because of how much despair I feel.
Much love to you all.
I don't think you will have offended anyone by saying how you feel. My heart goes out to you, because it is so hard to feel so much, and not feel like you are in an environment that cares about what you see and feel. But I think here you will find many who do care, and are rooting for the same kind of changes that you long to see. I know I do.
I remember my husband going through a long period of fury because he saw our slide toward fascism, even predating the 2016 election. He felt very alone, as if no one could see this thing that was so central to his perception. I myself was unable to comfort him with the long view, or anything. Somehow he found his way through it, grew ever more involved in trying to bring about positive change with election integrity, and working to aid candidates he believed in--but it hasn't stopped being hard. I don't think it will stop being hard.
Nevertheless we do move toward health, wholeness, new solutions. We can't help this, it's just the nature of living beings. I don't believe we are entirely selfish, because more and more we realize that we don't exist for ourselves alone--we exist for and through the existence of others. We have base motivation at times it's true, but then eventually look at ourselves and say, "And how did that work out for you?"
Please feel love and regard you deserve, that I'm surrounding you with right now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We can carry on and it will be okay.
It can get overwhelming that is for sure. I don't see Sanders making it through.. I feel his health is going to fail on him. I see Joe Biden dropping out eventually - he has been tainted in the minds of many - yes he did not do it.. but doubt was created and I can not see him beating Trump. I am feeling strongly drawn to an Amy Klobuchar/Pete Buttigieg ticket - for all the race running mudslinging and arguing... I feel these two would make a formidable team. Just my two cents worth 😉
Sanders is doing well and he is physically strong in spite of the mainstream press and the DNC and the right wing press (which means in spite of all of the Establishment) trying to make him fail.
I gently want to ask people to not project ill health on Sanders. We do not have any visions of Sanders or any candidate having another heart attack. It would be one thing if there were a doctor's report about him, but people live for years after a heart incident. The statistics, and they are only statistics, are the 20%. of people have another heart incident within five years of the first. That means that 80% of people don't have another incident within five years.
Oh definitely NOT wishing ill health on anyone ever!!!! With a history of Type Two Diabetes and heart disease in my family (my father died eventually from heart failure complications of his diabetes - after having several bypasses over a period of years) I wouldn't want anyone or their family to suffer that.
I am voting Blue no Matter who for sure.
@journeywithme2. Didn’t think you were wishing Illness at all on Bernie.
That said, when we post a prediction about someone’s illness or death I want to gently remind that we are expanding that possibility. Others read it and they start thinking that the person is sick and then the collective creates that vision. People start to see him as sick. The vision can cause his demise as a candidate and it can get into his psyche and make him sick. The Republicans did that to Hillary during the 2016 campaign and have done it incessantly to Ruth Bader Ginsberg.
It is tricky when we are intuitive because we want and need to post what we actually see and we also want to push the hope and the best possibilities.
So there is no strict rule to follow and I do not mean to lecture anyone about this. Who am I to say? Just sharing my thoughts.
Understood and point taken. ❤️