Except for Tulsi, I will be in for any of the contenders in the race. Whoever can beat T and save our republic will get my vote. This section is for discussions about the candidates unless you want to write about them in their own thread. You decide.
I’m still not getting any clear vision of the eventual D nominee. There are some candidates who I prefer over others, but I’m actually on the fence about it.
My gut sense is that whoever the Dem nominee is will not matter as much as the peoples' energy behind her or him. I honestly believe that pure energy will make that D succeed. With that in mind, we need to follow the Rs' example (yikes! did I really say that?) and go "all in" behind that D nominee.
There's that saying, "Ds fall in love. Rs fall in line." I detest taking orders, so the latter choice leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But because this election is so important, falling in line is critical this time around. And above all, not fight among ourselves.
It's also really important that the D party machine – and for that matter, the press -- refrain from tipping the scales in favor of one candidate. (Bunch of control freaks!) If they do that, I believe that D nominee will lose. Let this thing play out as it should.
BTW, I don't believe Tulsi will be a contender, but she can still make noise outside the race.
I posted this under Bloomberg but feel it needs to be posted here too.
Ryan Cooper of The Week discusses how far off the mark it would be for democrats to pick Bloomberg, though winning against T is definitely the #1 goal right now. I agree with Ryan that Bernie is the right one, even though you will hear everyone say a "socialist" can't win against T. I say Hogwash! I want Bernie and Elizabeth as my dream team...
https://theweek.com/articles/895985/mike-bloomberg-not-lesser-two-evils
@natalie It started with Hillary Clinton maintaining that the Kremlin is grooming one of the democratic women candidates, that Kremlin bots and trolls are favoring Tulsi, that some of her policy positions align with Russian interests.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/18/politics/hillary-clinton-tulsi-gabbard/index.html
I used to follow Tulsi and considered voting for her until she made a statement after the Mueller report came out that expressed relief that our country would not be divided over a messy impeachment. Her "present" vote at the actual impeachment hearing was the nail in that coffin. I wouldn't be surprised if she moved to the Libertarian party; for someone who purports to call for unity, she seems bent on attacking the democratic establishment, even more than Sanders. I'm with you all in picking up that she is not to be trusted.
I'm all in for Warren, and I'm frustrated by how she's being sabotaged by lack of media coverage and the prevalent assumption of her "unelectability" from all kinds of angles. I voted for Sanders last time, but I was disgusted by the behavior I saw (and continue to see) among many of his supporters, who were often sharing disinformation that originated by Russian bots (their primary goal is to sow division and they convinced a number of people to vote 3rd party or abstain rather than vote for Clinton). There is a rigidity that concerns me: many Bernie followers express great trust in him because he doesn't waver or compromise on his positions. And yeah, I was feeling that last time too. But now that the autocrats have undermined our checks & balances, I feel it is imperative that we shift to a ground-up government rather than a top-down one, and this means learning how to compromise and come to a consensus. It is true that corporate cash has polluted our political system, but the reality is there are many actual people who don't support the progressive agenda, even in the democratic party. We are seeing the damage of a populist forcing his will on the majority, and while I like Sanders's platform (nearly identical to Warren's), I'm uneasy about the cult following and energy that feels structurally similar to T, even if ideologically opposite. "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house"--Audre Lorde.
Warren is not perfect, but she is clearly someone who listens and learns and grows, and her platform is highly intersectional. She has plans to address issues like black maternal mortality and environmental justice. In my social network I hear (mostly from women in their sixties, but even among some progressive-minded boomers like me) solid support for Warren and concern that Sanders is too divisive. From the Sanders camp I've heard critiques that Warren can't be trusted, that she's not a true progressive--again, that hard-line, rigid, you-can't-change-your-mind-on-anything thinking. I just don't think she's being given a fair chance. Here's one great piece that looks at how she's been ignored: https://www.theroot.com/elizabeth-warren-exists-1841775506/amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1yvDThvtKg2c3vf6grfmOf81hXdWwp-r6UFOhbiqeB-DJ4cIu-EPB-rDg
And one from Rebecca Solnit, who has been singing her praises (and calling out the sexism of her "unelectability" for a while now): https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/31/2020-dream-candidate-elizabeth-warren-democrats?fbclid=IwAR0U0IfS_I0uZo7s_n2ofgdVHDWl2yYbAqt-ep_46ysTBWebCdi91KxeZH4
It’s about equality, but not just economic equality: as understood from a deep engagement with where the dangers lie, where the suffering is, whether it’s black maternal mortality or the plight of refugees or the burden of student loan debt. At the heart of her campaign is kindness as an emotion, as a value – and as a basis for policy. As she put it in hercall with Megan Rapinoe: “We really believe in equity. We believe in racial equity, we believe in gender equity, we believe in everybody gets a chance in this country.”
I'll vote for whomever gets the nomination, even Biden or Bloomberg, who are bottom of the barrel for me. But I hope Warren gets a chance to shine and fight for us with her "big Structural Mom Energy" (she is a Cancer!). Looks like she rocked last night's debate, so hopefully she'll get more attention and better numbers in Nevada.
@herondreams, I just posted about Warren under the Warren/Klobuchar thread. I totally agree with you.
Your post has motivated me to stop lurking and post something. I’m a Pete guy, but Warren is a close second. She’s awesome! And I absolutely share your concerns re: the more intense Bernie supporters.
To the exact point of the Audre Lorde quote, when I’ve suggested uncanny parallels between Bernie and Trump supporters to family/friends, people look at me like I have three heads. But I’m reminded of a high school history teacher’s lesson that has stuck with me through adulthood – the concept of the political spectrum as a horseshoe, where as you go further to the extremes the spectrum bends towards itself, resulting in noticeable similarities between far left and far right in terms of discourse, ethics, tactics, and the structure of belief systems. Imagine that horseshoe with four quadrants, with the Left and Right on either side of the vertical axis as the “political” orientation, and Authoritarian and Cooperative on the horizontal axis as the “philosophical/style” orientation. I try to stay in the Left/Cooperative quadrant, and have come to conclude that a disproportionately high percentage of Bernie supporters – not all, or even most, to be fair – reside in the Left/Authoritarian quadrant.
Authoritarian quadrants tend not to play nice with other quadrants.
Also agreed about Bloomberg being the bottom of the barrel, and I would swap Gabbard for Biden down there too. All the rest, Bernie included, are much more palatable as the nominee.
@sanguine and others: Bernie supporters are not Bernie. And if you are implying that Bernie is like Trump, or if you are trying to associate Bernie with Trump, just because some of the Bernie supporters had liked Trump, I gently but firmly disagree.
Bernie has been clear his entire political life which goes back to his college days, that he is only trying to provide a fair and just society where we can all have a decent lifestyle. He wants a country like Denmark, not communist, not socialist, not anarchy, but one that provides Americans with a comfortable life. He is simply going back to the days in this country when we had many of those benefits. Although college has never been free in this country, state schools used to be affordable. That's a social democracy -- a lengthy and healthy maternity leave, free health care for all, free day care for all, free higher education, decent job security and vacations. On happiness scales, Denmark ranks highest. The U.S. is way down the scale in happiness rankings because it is so far to the Right and people live hand to mouth with little time for family. College cost is absurd. The gig economy is oppressive to the people.
To say that Bernie hasn't done much or that he doesn't cooperate is untrue. He has a long record of collaboration.
You're absolutely right that Bernie is not his supporters and if he wins the nomination I will be happy to vote for him. I'm looking more at the narratives spun by the campaign and the followers and what I see as an unhealthy dynamic. This comes from real-life friends who post articles and memes on social media, often tinged with conspiracy, one example being that Buttigieg was behind the issues with the failed voting app and the huge mess in Iowa and that he deliberately cheated Bernie out of votes. "Cheatin' Pete" memes were circulating. I live in a VERY liberal city and a couple local friends who are public figures (one a former city councilman) posted on Facebook their support for Warren and they felt it was necessary to include requests to not be attacked in the comments. The woman who posted this used the term "Bernie-splain" and that fits pretty well the condescension from many within that camp.
I also see tons of comments, some of which may be from bots rather than people, but there's a real fervor there that matches what I see from actual people I know, on articles by Democracy Now, posts by Robert Reich, and even to troll posts by Warren's campaign that hold the narrative that Bernie is the only candidate with integrity or who will give us Medicare for all. (Warren's apparently some kind of traitor and will capitulate to corporations and she should drop out of the race to let the real progressive win.) I don't see the same "attack" energy coming from supporters of other candidates, and this poll from the beginning of the month reflects that distrust of others among Sanders followers:
Obviously Bernie is unlike Trump in ways beyond ideology. But it is the "We need THIS (and ONLY THIS) man to be leader so we can get X" narrative from many followers that is similar. Another difference is that probably most of Trump's supporters are sucked into the cult-like hero worship, while it is a highly vocal contingent within Bernie's camp that may be 50% or less. Also Trump himself is a liar and fake and Bernie clearly is not. As a progressive, and someone who has had health coverage only a tiny fraction of her adult life (none now at age 48), I'm deeply grateful to Bernie for pushing the party back in what I feel is the right direction. I left the party after Bill Clinton & have been a Green or Independent ever since. I may change my voter affiliation back, especially if AOC becomes a central, well-supported figure within the party. She is the future I want to see!
Oh, oh, oh, let me tell you about Tulsi, the object of my loathing.
For starters, Tulsi has shown support for Syria’s brutal Assad.
She is also supported by Putin.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/
story/2019-10-25/tulsi-gabbard-russian-asset-republican
Tulsi is now a regular on Fox News, often complaining about the Democratic nomination process.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/10/tulsi-gabbard-defends-fox-news-appearances-says-th/
Tulsi is the only Democrat who did not vote to impeach Trump. Instead, she voted present.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/us/elections/tulsi-gabbard-impeachment-vote.html
She’s not a Democrat. She’s a spoiler and only looking out for herself.
Obviously, I could go on and on. Need to do a loving kindness meditation now.
My issues with Bernie arent his platform, it's his execution. The medical records became an issue and after Trump's hiding of everything, he needs to release them. He is too stubborn on this one and needs to learn how to pick his battles better. Also, when the cost of his democratic socialist ideas is brought up, he doesnt do a good job of properly explaining them. Let's face it-most of the public is either stupid or getting their news in one line blurbs. He has to account for that and, again, is too stubborn to change. The way he is going about this question is playing into the hands of the people exploiting this fact.
Warren has basically the same platform, but with her experience as an educator, she is better suited to get her point across to the masses. She also is progressive in both her ideology and her way of thinking. She has changed her platform because she is evolving with what the country wants. Bernie is steadfast in his ideas and will never change. Lack of adaptability is a death sentence in politics and even if Bernie is President, he doesnt have the ability to compromise enough to get his agenda passed.
If Bernie, or Biden, or whomever, win the Dem nomination, they're getting.my vote. I just pray it's not Bloomberg because he is one step down from Trump and a lot of Dem voters are back to where they were in 2016-hating both candidates
If you've watched the news in the last few days (CNN, MSNBC), our Intelligence agencies have warned Trump and Bernie (some time ago) that Putin is already interfering in our Primary election and supporting Bernie to be the Democratic nominee, because Putin's goal is to help Trump win.
Middle America won't vote for a Socialist and Putin knows this. The bottom line is if Bernie wins the nomination, we won't win the election. There was a discussion today from a campaign strategist that our democracy won't survive another 4 years of Trump.
As of this afternoon in Las Vegas, the millennials have turned out in droves to caucus for Bernie and he has the lead. If Bernie gets too far ahead in the race, the others won't be able to catch up.
I'm praying for a miracle and hope that everyone here is too.
I am worried about Bernie winning the nomination. I agree that if he does take the nomination then Trump wins. Has anyone meditated on this because I am holding on to the hope that the previous visions still hold. I really hope that the future isn't changing for the worse.
@jovesta I've been throwing Tarot cards using the Celtic Cross spread, asking if the candidate in question would win the Election and become President. Bernie's final card was The Fool. Trump's final card was The Lovers. Not sure about Bloomberg yet.
@light So, what do those two cards mean? I am not familiar with card meanings.... sorry! I am an intuitive, but not a clairvoyant....
They were upright. I just did a reading on Pete and Mike: Pete's last card was The Tower - Reversed.
Mike's last card was the 5 of Wands - Reversed.
Bernie: The Fool: New beginnings
Trump: The Lovers: Commitment, partnerships.
Pete: The Tower: Losses
Mike: 5 of Wands - reversed: Conflict is coming or ending.