Putin, and every other foreign entity involved, are not just pushing the buttons of the far right. They are manipulating everyone by moving the right and left further apart and trying to eliminate centrists. Theyre behind, to some extent, metoo, blm, and many other left movements as well. Electing Trump was a goal, but the major goal was fracturing the country right down the middle. Its been something they have been working toward for years and I wouldnt be surprised at all to find that they helped Obama get elected as well. Obamas presidency is what really enraged the alt right and allowed for racism to come to the forefront again. I also wouldnt be surprised if they were to work toward a Bittigieg/Trump election in 2020. A gay man running against Trump would help further that divide. They have already separated the GOP into 2 distinct parties and the left is well on its way to that end also.
Kneejerk reaction to far right leadership is to move as distant from it as possible, but I really think that the only way out of this mess is centrism. If we can work together and negotiate again, we can reunite the country. We are just on the fast track to an alt right vs ultra progressive battle and the only winners of that fight are those who set it in motion. Before this all started, I was pretty far left but now it feels like those in my position are just extending that chasm as much as the alt right is.
Lots of interesting conversation this AM. The amazing thing is Putin actually went on Russian TV and bragged about bringing the US to it's knees. The only one who doesn't accept it is the idiot in the WH and his followers. I truly believe that Moron is so compromised by Putin that he will do anything to keep his dirty little secret (what ever it is) under raps. I rememeber during one of the "rallys" the news interviewed a young conservative man and ask him about the Russian influence. He went all gushy about Putin and how cool he was and how he was a great leader and was , are you ready for this, a true christian man! I turned off the TV right then and there. Everytime I see these old white men wearing "better Russian than Democrat" Tee shirts I want to gag. These are people the same age as me who were pro Vietnam war because we needed to defeat communism. Really!? It amazes me and frightens me. Then I have to remind myself that these people are the minority in our country. I don't see more people moving to join them see more people moving away from them. I was interviewed, as a man on the street kind of thing, a month or so ago by a local TV station. They ask what newschannels I watched. I told them NONE. If I watch TV news it was PBS world news. I take every news item I read or watch with a grain of salt. I have noticed youtube has started including brief advertising before some of there videos. Some are for alt-right news channels. I also noticed one of the psychics I watch has said her vidoes are being Monitized. Not sure what that means but I take it to mean censured. What a crock.
I did have a very interesting video pop up the other day on youtube. It was called 7 settings on your iphone you should know about and how to turn them off. These were settings that allowed apple and advertisers to track your activites, even where you go. Very interesting and they gave step by step instructions on what the settings did and how to turnthem off. It was not an alarmist video they emphasised that these settings drained your battery. Good information to have in my opinion.
Important and enlightening conversation -- maybe we should begin a new thread? @jaidy and @lovendures, I agree with much of what you’ve both stated here. I believe that it's really important to be self-reflective and not demonize the other. If we do, then we become like those who demonize us. And I can love T. supporters, insofar as I see them as part of the collective, spiritual whole. We're all spiritually connected on this big, confusing, beautiful planet.
I've never lost sleep about anyone's opposing political views -- the friend I mentioned earlier voted for Bush, and that made no difference to me. But I’m losing some sleep now. These are fundamental, moral issues. Some people have gone with T. willingly, and others have looked the other way, choosing to live in their protective bubble. What we're dealing with now are sins against humanity. And the trauma ... every day I think about the immigrants at the border. And the people who have histories of trauma and are being retraumatized again, with this cruel administration. This is what I struggle with.
@sagetarotpisces, what you shared resonates with me. The human psyche is powerful. It’s remarkable how it can take command and do what needs to be done, in order for one to feel safe in an unsafe situation. I remember when Patty Hearst was kidnapped, and after a brutal period, she ended up sympathizing with the kidnappers and their twisted revolutionary goals. You do what’s needed in order to survive; you do it enough, and you may end up believing in the false narrative you’ve created (or someone else created). I believe we’re all experiencing a collective trauma – not just the trauma that T. is creating, but almost a PTSD-type of trauma for many individuals. Old buttons are being pushed. And each of us is dealing with those old wounds, the old trauma, in his/her own way.
@vestralux and @bluebelle – yikes! I hadn’t considered that the spiritual left was also being targeted. That makes a lot of sense to me. My friend, AC, has always been a seeker. For as long as I’ve known her, AC has been trying to find that special secret to spiritual liberation. She’s so gifted with intuitive reading and hands-on healing, and yet, AC has never been satisfied with the incredible gifts she possesses. While Obama was in office, she began sending a group of us some fake political memes – we’d ask AC to look it up on factcheck.org, and she’d send out a correction. But in recent years AC has also been focused on the more extreme and, in my view, questionable parts of the spiritual left. Your post made me reflect on the day after the presidential election, when I was expressing my grief to AC – rather than sympathize with me, she was almost giddy. To the best of my recollection, the gist of her email was, we’re finally here! … this is all good … we’ll clean out the government … it’s preparing us for the Ascension. In her view, this was part of a cosmic plan. And she was also convinced that under his watch, the 45th would not allow anything really bad happen to us.
I’ve always been a pretty private person. I’ve never joined Facebook – have always been somewhat cautious, and something about FB bothered me. I still don’t own an iPhone or iPad, probably for that same reason. So I’ve been walking around with this false sense of security. But I’m here on this site – posting, of all things -- which still surprises me. And I do search the Internet, not always cognizant of the fact that I’m being watched. No one is really safe.
I don’t subscribe to Netflix, but I may do it now – I really want to watch “The Hoax” (thank you laura-f and vestralux!) I’d also suggest a 4- part, docuseries, “American Swamp”, that MSNBC is featuring on Sunday nights at 9pm. Katy Tur and Jacob Soboroff travel throughout the country to address dark money and political corruption, including how big money influences local elections. The second installment is showing tomorrow night.
On the whole, I understand and empathize with where you're coming from. We're living in an incredibly frustrating and often dangerous time, though I'd say it's a tremendous gift to be here now, regardless. I do feel called to quibble with something you said, though I'm fairly sure you didn't mean it literally or entirely.
You wrote that the Russians are "behind" ("to some extent") MeToo, Black Lives Matter, and other progressive social movements. Maybe you're also thinking of Occupy Wall Street, Antifa, and a dozen other iterations on the same. But in my view, to say that Russia is behind (to any extent) any of these is to imply that they manufactured these movements as psi ops, in whole or in part. And there's no evidence to suggest that's true, as far as I know. I believe that BLM, MeToo, and the rest were all organic uprisings born out of this era's post-modern social complexity. (The Arab Spring and many other instances of similar processes were popping up across the world around the same time.)
Complexity theory shows us how in social systems, patterns emerge from what looks like chaos, and at a certain stage, these patterns begin to coalesce around a self-organizing principle. Multiculturalism is a relatively new, and therefore more complex, social system. So, it's a natural function of that emerging system that groups who were historically sexually and/or racially oppressed (within the former, less complex system) will begin to self-organize for greater rights and visibility. In other words, we were always going to have a MeToo and a BLM, just as we were always going to have Abolition and Suffrage and Civil Rights.
As long as we survive ourselves, we advance ourselves.
What Russia and others did do was throw a well-timed and Gordian grenade (opportunistic AI) directly into the gears, right about the time The Culture Wars were gearing up to reach a new stage of complexity: one we might have called The Culture Synthesis, but that's just my best guess.
The thing is, now that we're in the Digital Age in a time where any society at all can be said to be multicultural, we're all globalists, regardless how anti-global/pro-nationalist we claim to be. That means, essentially, that we're ALL Russia—and they are us. And this ain't just a pretty spiritual maxim; it's species facts.
Historically speaking, many, many civilizations crumbled into oblivion when met with complexity far less ...complex. So, I'll wager this is our doing hour. The good news is that a nation isn't its government, just as a society isn't its lowest common denominator (in case it needs saying: Russians are a beautiful people). I believe humanity is up to the task.
Last thing: I believe in holding the center as an offering of balance, wherever needed—whether between conflicting people, ideas, or ideologies. There are also times when taking a more moderate stance is judicious, or just practical good sense. But I refuse to relinquish my progressive ethical values in service of becoming more moderate or centrist.
And anyway, the idea of a linear spectrum feels like a flattening of a greater dimensional field. I want to see Americans learn to truly honor one another's differences, so I'm willing to stand in mine without requiring that others stand there with me.
You are right. I worded that horribly. My intentions were not to say they are behind those movements as in the driving force or formation. What I meant was that they are behind supportive(subtly combative) social media posting, trying to fuel a more agressive approach toward the cause. They are using social media to play both sides and push each further from the other. For instance(just a hypothetical, not specific fact that I know of), they will post as Americans pushing the black lives matter movement and then follow that up with strong anti-movement replies, following that up as a supposed BLM supporter pushing back hard on "Blue lives matter" and so on.
I was almost certain that's exactly what you meant, and tried to say so in my first paragraph (not sure that came through). It was more that your post inspired me to say something I think is important, just in case anyone else benefits from thinking about it from the same frame. We both enjoy exercising ideas, so I doubt it's necessary, but I do want to apologize if you felt I was calling you out, Mas, because that wasn't at all my intention.
And the hypothetical example you just offered about pro-BLM vs anti-BLM and pro-Blue Lives posts are very real. So much of that kind of thing is still going on now. In fact, I only have a Twitter account for my business, which I almost never even open. But this week I looked at it and noticed that my feed was full of pro-Trump tweets. Weird! As I investigated, I saw that they were all appearing on my feed because they'd been liked by multiple people I follow—none of which are pro-Trump supporters (in fact, just the opposite). I have a strong suspicion there's a hack or some kind of sophisticated bot situation, but so far its just a theory. If anyone else is seeing this, let me know.
I didnt feel any upset about you calling me out. I prefer it to be called out if I wasnt clear, so I can rectify the miscommunication.
As fasr as the bots on twitter, I dont think it is a hack, per se, but social media is one huge data collection racket and everyone's personal life is being sold to the highest bidder. Im fairly certain that is where it came from.
Both of you -- I am glad Vestralux responded, and Mas1581, I get the point you were making and now I understand what you were saying. I also had the same reaction as Vestralux and feel it's important that people not associate so many important causes, such as MeToo and Black Lives matter, with Russian bots.
This is only semi-related to the subject of trump resigning, but it fits most in this topic thread. There was a prediction 1-2 years ago on this forum (maybe it was Jeanne's prediction, but I can't recall) that something would happen to shock us, and that afterward things become quieter. I'm wondering if this string of shootings isn't the thing that shocks us. Maybe this is it, the thing that gets trump and the other idiots to stop inciting violence and maybe things quiet down a bit. I've also felt a movement in energy in the last couple of days. Wondering if someone better isn't around the corner.
Btw, the news this morning is full of politicians (dems mostly) talking about white nationalism/terrorism. Something's shifting.
lynn - you have a point. Despite how bad DoJ is right now, the FBI is still flexing its own muscles here and there. Perhaps here is some of the shift you are sensing:
Fact that I know of), they will post as Americans pushing the black lives matter movement and then follow that up with strong anti-movement replies, following that up as a supposed BLM supporter pushing back hard on "Blue lives matter" and so on.
This exact example appears on "'The Great Hack"
@lynnventura I've been sensing the same thing brewing for months now, and all the astrological and other indicators seemed to concur. These energies pointed to a building conflagration of sorts—from spring to late summer— beginning roughly at the release of Mueller's report with a calamity of key events occurring in July, August, and September. Then I feel an eruption of mass energy and a lot of scrambling on the surface, but afterward, a feeling of "going dark" or "going silent." (I'd love to call this a departure.)
Sadly, I feel we'll continue to see many more instances of domestic terror attempted and committed by far right anti-immigrant and white supremacist sympathizers before anything is done at the federal level, including the passage of legislation to ban or greatly restrict the sale of assault weapons. And while this incendiary energy rises in conjunction with the tide I describe above, it isn't the underlying eruption that I see.
Rather, my sense is that a great big net has or soon will be reeled in. Whatever it's full of stinks, and it can all be dumped firmly and squarely at the feet of Trump and Family. I sense that Pelosi was waiting for precisely this and has prepared a clear strategy for how to use it.
Perhaps just as important, since the Mercers and Kochs have pulled out, I believe that other Republican mega-donors will start fleeing the Trump train like rats in a house on fire. Starting this very minute, I even think we'll start to see some inkling of evidence that the crony-stacked Republican Congress who owe their careers to these donors are tiptoeing quietly right behind.
Trump still has support, though, and it's an entirely new, utterly unpredictable variety. It's engineered to be that way; he was used as the "grenade in the machine," after all. So, who knows? You can't call a winner in a cat fight, and this is basically that—on a whole other dimension.
When Mueller did his televised press release in June, I started detecting some sort of energetic churning in the collective, and now that sensation has given way to inexorably mounting tension. I don't have a strong background in astrology or psychic reading, so your appraisal validates my intuition. And I agree; these latest attacks in Dayton and El Paso don't feel like the conflagration that will release all of that tension. We've become too numb to mass shootings in this country.
Regarding mega-donors and the crony-stacked GOP caucus, in the past two weeks alone, five House Republicans have announced their decisions not to run for re-election in 2020 (3 more representatives announced their plans to retire earlier in the year). The quiet exodus is already in motion.
Regarding mega-donors and the crony-stacked GOP caucus, in the past two weeks alone, five House Republicans have announced their decisions not to run for re-election in 2020 (3 more representatives announced their plans to retire earlier in the year). The quiet exodus is already in motion.
Bingo.
Though something about this feels a lot more like an en mass flight for survival after some deliberate chumming of the waters than anything I'd call a "quiet exodus." If you're gonna sacrifice your career at the alter of conscientious objection, it only counts to do so before going to war.
@mayberry
Hello, I apologize for not replying back here. I was out of commissioned this past summer due to surgery I had this past summer.
I re-read my post from June 30th, and I must admit I am surprised the impeachment inquiry has started.
more will come out on Trump's criminal activity and I do believe he won't last long.
he'll resign because the evidence will be overwhelming, against Trump and his family.
many of his co-horts or White House aids - also, will follow him out the door.
peace, Mayberry
I had a dream last night and was not sure where to post, so it's going here. I saw 45 at night, walking away across a green field. Someone ran up to him, and had him put on a bright orange hunter's coat. Someone who was in charge of his image wanted him to embrace the orange Cheeto. He wore the coat.
@westie1010 - WHO put on the coat? I can't tell ...
Going to the far-right versus far-left thing. I can understand the point that we must work together, I agree, and we shouldn't judge average people too harshly. However. Politics around the world has shifted so far to the right that what is seen as far-left by some is actually more centre-left. Ideas that are considered far left can unite people. Also, to me, there can be no more trying to work with corrupt Republicans. That was always the mistake Barrack Obama made in my opinion, he always wanted bi-partisanship, but it made him look weak and the republicans strong because they didn't want that and they fought back against Obama, and Democrats didn't defend themselves enough or go on the offensive with bold policies and an alternative vision. Going back to those "nostalgic days of the 90s where everyone worked together" won't work either. The Republican party had already moved strongly to the right in the 80s and 90s and they have ever since. They are too extreme to work with most of the time. If Democrats try to work with them, they will have to sell out entirely, and be corrupted more, and that's not a good idea and looks weak and means Democrats won't come out to vote at election time.
@detoo I recently had a big party in NYC (fortunately I didn't have to pay for it) given by friends of mine. I invited the guests. One person I didn't invite voted for Trump and I'm no longer in contact with her. The reason I'm no longer in contact with her is I had to get her stuff off of my Facebook page. I have, however, been in contact with her since Trump was elected. Now it seems to have dropped off.
The reason I didn't invite her to my party was for her own protection. NYC (and most particularly my friends) are so rabid about him, I was afraid someone would find out and verbally attack her or they would talk anti-Trump in front of her and make her uncomfortable.
I am pretty sure she's a racist. She tells everyone he's Italian. When my Haitian friend looked at his photo she said oh, he's black. And my friend started in with the Italian stuff, and her coworker just laughed at her. My friend's response -- to a black person - "oh no, he's got enough going against him already." So there you have it.