Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] The Impeachment of Donald Trump  

Page 4 / 19
  RSS

(@suspira44)
Reputable Member Registered Registered
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 298

TriciaCT, Lilinoe, Lenor and 1 people liked
(@allyn)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 158
12/27/2019 10:27 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

Thank you for everything you do on this site.  You gave me hope.

But I truly believe what I said.  We are all in this together.  We are like the patriot soldiers who are rowing the boats to transport George Washington and his troops across the Delaware.  Our people are depressed, discouraged, and worn out.  But we keep rowing in the darkness through treacherous, icy waters. 

Why?  According to Trump and his group, we have lost.  Nothing we do will ever change that.  They are celebrating in their warm homes, convinced that we won't raise any resistance.  That we will accept the darkness.

But we keep rowing. 

And we win a miracle when it is least expected. 

Why?  Because there are enough good people out there who have enough light and faith (or, in my case, are just too stupid and stubborn to accept when people tell me to "accept" situations I find morally repulsive) that will continue to fight the darkness no matter what the costs.  All the more reason for us to encourage one another not to listen to the lies when they tell us there is no hope.

If Adam Schiff, Pelosi, and others are symbolic of Washington, then we are the boat rowers.  We may not be remembered by history, but it is partly by our efforts that the light will triumph.  We must do what we can to encourage each other and keep the light going, because the children living now and in the future are depending on us.

To everyone else on this site, keep your hopes up and your light going.  We are in a lull right now, but treacherous times are coming for our country.  We must be ready to row! 


Lenor, CC21, Laura F. and 6 people liked
(@5leafclover)
Trusted Member Registered
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
12/29/2019 2:34 pm  

     In my opinion Joe Biden has damaged the Democrats' case to make current and former members of the White House testify at the senate trial. Joe Biden said he would defy a subpoena to testify at the senate trial. He later walked it back but the damage is already done. Everyone who is associated in some way with the issues that led to impeachment needs to testify. Joe Biden gave the appearance of doing exactly what Donald Trump has been doing: Trying to hide something by preventing certain people from testifying.


Lenor and Lilinoe liked
(@allyn)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 158
12/29/2019 4:44 pm  

@5leafclover

I respectfully disagree.  Why should Biden testify?  This trial is over whether or not Trump used the power of the presidency to withhold aid to a foreign country in exchange for launching a supposed "investigation" against a political opponent.  Biden is, at most, an intended victim.   As with a case where defendants are caught before they execute a home invasion, you don't necessarily need the intended victim of the home the defendants were targeting.  A better choice for a witness would be the Ukraine government, as they was directly affected (and thus makes them actual victims with personal knowledge.)

There is no viable legal reason why Biden should be called to testify.  He has no personal knowledge of what happened between Trump and Ukraine.  He was not present at any of the conversations, either.  Further, as Trump was later caught and thus released the aid, the "investigation" into Biden never materialized, and thus no harm was actually done to Biden.  In short, Biden is not a witness with any relevant information as to whether Trump committed impeachable offenses or not.

So....why would the Republicans call Biden?  So they can do what Ukraine wouldn't do.  Drag Biden through the dirt and ruin his candidacy via conspiracy theories and slander.  Then, once they were done with Biden, they would proceed to call other witnesses to prove Biden's "corrupt" acts, such as Hillary Clinton or Obama.  By doing this, they would parade the "liberals" in front of Fox News coverage  to further delegitimize the process and protect Trump.

If the Republicans were so interested in the truth, why won't they call on Trump or anyone who was present during these communications?  Why not ask any of the Ukrainians who were involved to testify (they won't, of course, due to diplomatic immunity, but at least the Republicans look like they are semi-serious).

If I were Biden, I wouldn't trust the Senate Republicans, who have no intention of conducting a fair trial and are making plans to do an "acquittal vote" once the articles of impeachment are sent over.   But Democrats need to control the narrative.  Every time a Republican asks Biden to testify, ask why Trump will not testify.  Or why Trump's underlings won't testify.  Or why he won't release the transcript of the call.  Or why his people sent an email barely two hours after the July phone call ordering that the foreign aid be withheld.  Trump is suppose to have evidence proving his innocence, so why won't he produce it and end this process?

In short, Democrats need to keep repeating these point over and over (think "Bengazi").  Put the ball back in the Republicans' court.  Ask why they won't call any of these "relevant" witnesses.  Or, in the alternative, have Biden agree to testify IF TRUMP ALSO AGREES TO TESTIFY.  When Trump refuses (and we know he will), then the Republicans have no other narrative to play.  

 


TriciaCT, Lenor, Suspira44 and 7 people liked
(@jessi1978)
Honorable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 525
12/29/2019 7:31 pm  

@allyn

I don’t understand either. Why the hell do they want Biden to testify? This has nothing to do with him. This is all T and his minions. Might as well call Obama, and what the hell call back Hillary and Bill and maybe they can get Trudeau since he had T cameo on Home Alone removed. He is really pissed about that. That should be the least of his problems.  Maybe the can conduct a seance and call Senator McCain since he probably started this whole thing. Let’s call of T imagined enemies and how they wronged him.

Making Biden testify makes no sense. His son was cleared from any wrong doing.

The man is getting crazier everyday since that do nothing Democrat Pelosi still has not send the article of Impeachment’s so he can be acquitted in 2 seconds.  Pelosi is not stupid enough like T. She knows how to play the game better and smarter then him

 

1577665962-7A092458-24CA-4AEC-8198-0B0CE0A6594A.jpeg

TriciaCT, Lenor, Suspira44 and 2 people liked
(@jessi1978)
Honorable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 525
12/30/2019 10:58 pm  

Things are getting interesting 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/476311-giuliani-associate-to-turn-over-iphone-data-documents-to-house-committee

Lev Parnas, an associate of President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, plans to turn over his iPhone data and other documents to the House Intelligence Committee, his lawyer announced Monday.

Let’s see what this produces.

 


TriciaCT, Lenor, Lilinoe and 2 people liked
(@suspira44)
Reputable Member Registered Registered
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 298
12/31/2019 4:47 pm  

as we go into the New Year, Trump and Obama are the two most admired men in America, and Trump's popularity has remained steady. Obviously there is nothing that is going to convince his base he did anything wrong. If the Democrats are hoping that the trial changes that, it won't.


Lenor and Laura F. liked
(@lenor)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 211
12/31/2019 6:00 pm  

@suspira44

I agree, I saw a post where a reporter asked a trumper why she liked  t*****. Her answer was that he was wonderful for the country, she absolutely loved him and  she would take a bullet for him! To say I was speechless and horrified that this person would even say that she would  die for that horrible being. I still cannot rationalize such ignorance?stupidity?


(@jessi1978)
Honorable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 525
12/31/2019 6:57 pm  

@lenor

This sums it up

Attachment removed

TriciaCT, Lilinoe, Lenor and 2 people liked
(@mas1581)
Reputable Member Registered
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 383
12/31/2019 9:52 pm  

Anyone else have the feeling that the Trump/Putin phonecall a few days ago has something to do with the Embassy storming in Baghdad? This feels so strongly like a setup/the Reichstag fire some have predicted and timing couldnt be better for Trump on the heels of the impeachjment trial.


TriciaCT, BlueBelle, Unk p and 3 people liked
(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 3877
12/31/2019 9:56 pm  

@mas1581

I hadn't thought of it, but Putin came to power on his own Reishtag fire.  And I had thought Trump would pull this stunt when the going got tough.  I don't know if this is that. 


TriciaCT and Lenor liked
(@mas1581)
Reputable Member Registered
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 383
12/31/2019 10:24 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

The way things come to me, I cant tell if they are true predictions or unrealized logical deductions(my brain never shuts off so Im always thinking about 100 different things at any given moment and both come to me the same). This one is no different so Im not sure which one it is. That said, the feelings behind it are strong for me


TriciaCT and Lenor liked
(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 3877
01/01/2020 1:36 am  

@MAS1581 It bothers me now that I know that Putin called Trump Sunday in yet another of their secret conversations, just when I had been sensing over the last few weeks that Putin was working on some scheme to make sure his White House ace-in-the-hole would stay in power. The White House has tried to keep the Putin phone call secret. We only know about it because Moscow reported it.

Then within two days, the Baghdad embassy is attacked by an Iranian-backed militia. 

Then, as if on cue,  Tulsi Gabbard tweets criticism of Trump about the attack,  setting her up for attention in the democratic race at a time when she's running less than 1 percent in the polls. 

Mainly I am concerned about yet another secret phone call. 

 


KB, TriciaCT, Lilinoe and 4 people liked
(@lovendures)
Noble Member Registered
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1524

TriciaCT, Lilinoe, Lenor and 1 people liked
(@practicalnihilist)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 100
01/01/2020 12:15 pm  

I'm an intermediate intuitive plus the future is not 100% set in stone.

 

With that disclaimer  said my intuition is telling me that DT has already decided to resign and is just waiting to fulfill his obligations first.  Those obligations are to russia and DT is >90% likely to resign sometime before June 2020.


Jeanne Mayell, Coyote, TriciaCT and 7 people liked
(@billy-mike)
Eminent Member Registered
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 35
01/01/2020 2:48 pm  

@practicalnihilist

so very nice to consider. . .


TriciaCT, Lenor, Polarberry and 2 people liked
(@polarberry)
Reputable Member Registered
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 442
01/02/2020 9:14 am  

@mas1581

Yes.  Putin tells him what to do and when to do it.


TriciaCT and Lenor liked
(@elaineg)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 244
01/02/2020 5:02 pm  

I was talking to a trump supporter,. He said trump has done things he didn't like, but he plans to vote for him again because he has kept us out of a recession.


Lenor liked
(@rowsella)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 149
01/02/2020 6:35 pm  

@elaineg

That is very confusing because we were not in a recession or headed towards one before/when he was elected. 


(@elaineg)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 244
01/02/2020 7:12 pm  

@rowsella

Not confusing at all. We are not in a recession, but some have predicted one, and the trump supporter says trump is keeping us from having one.


Lenor liked
(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 3877
01/02/2020 7:36 pm  

It is sad when Trump and the right wing pundits convince people they are better off financially under Trump.   Like everything Trump, it's gaslighting and smoke and mirrors.   And when the economy crashes, they will simply blame the democrats or the poor, like they did with the 2008 recession.  Trump  has screwed small farmers but they still believe in him and can't accept that he screwed them with his trade deals. I think @Jessi had it right, that Trumpers buy the con.

Trump is not the reason we are recession-free at the moment. He may or may not have put off a crash temporarily by bullying the fed into keeping interest rates down, but no one knows even about that. Anyway, smoke and mirrors works for only so long.  

If you are out of energy and you drink strong coffee or chug a coke, you get a boost, but are you healthier? And how long will that last? 

The only way to a solid economy is to create a healthy one. Nearly everything  Trump has done is unhealthy and bad for America and for the global economy.  

And ultimately it is the climate that will destroy all economies all over the world. He's driving that into the ground and we are running out of time.

 When I got a vision of the future in 2013, I saw a dip near the end of 2019 then a more long term slide some time in 2020. I still don't know if this vision was the markets or the Collective emotions or both. Probably both.    

We had the scary dip in October.  There were some concerning indicators that the economy was in trouble. And cyclically, it may be time.  Although I got my vision separate from any analysis, it turned out that a lot of economic experts, including a Nobel Prize winner,  also thought a crash was coming. Trump hopes he can avoid a crash this year  because it will reflect badly on him, so he pressured the Fed to keep interest rates low. But you can do that only so long.  If and when the crash does come, it will be colossal, like a fault line that has built up pressure too long.  

And anyway, who is feeling so well off, other than the ultra wealthy?

The economy is our collective well being. It is built with infrastructure and equity and health care and a decent wage and benefits  for the majority.  And more than any time in history, it is dependent upon a respect for the earth.   Trump and the GOP have worked against that. The average wages have not changed much under Trump (one tenth of one percent higher) over what they were under Obama. Most of the increase in wages is likely from liberal cities' and states' minimum wage increases. Nothing to do with Donald Trump. And the trade deals he's negotiated?  USMCA is very close to NAFTA. 

The best approach is not to talk to Trumpers or listen to anything they or he says.  It is toxic and full of propaganda.  They are passing on the gaslighting they've received. 


JeanneMI, raindrop, Baba and 10 people liked
(@polarberry)
Reputable Member Registered
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 442
01/02/2020 9:41 pm  

Thanks, Jeanne, I was about to drink a Pepsi. lol

Trump supporters have a problem with facts.  They truly are brainwashed.  Sad and scary.


TriciaCT, Lenor, Lilinoe and 1 people liked
(@allyn)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 158
01/02/2020 10:28 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

I fear the economy is far worse than people realize.  Thanks to Trump's tax breaks, the super wealthy are saving their money or using it on themselves.  In fact, less than 20% of the money the super rich has saved is actually being itilized in the creation of new jobs and/or higher wages for the rest of us.

"Sigh."  Trickle down economics.  When will Republicans ever learn?

But the economy is not doing as well as people think.  Believe me, I know.  I work in the legal profession, and we have a little rule that we follow.  If the economy is actually doing good, there is a downturn of "indigent" clients (clients who can't afford attorneys).  This is true in family law cases (Department of Children Services cases, termination of parental rights cases, etc.), criminal cases (defendants accused of crimes), juvenile in need of a guardian ad litem (aka-friend of the court).  Basically, if the economy is doing great, then people are able to afford their own attorneys.  If the economy is doing poorly, then many people need attorneys appointed to them because they cannot afford them.

I have been keeping an eye on the statistics in my area since 2008.  The worst time period (the years where we have more indigent clients) was 2009 and 2010.

Until now.  Our courts are overwhelmed right now in a supposed "good" economy.  2019 is now the third worst year statistically since 2008.  Court was actually in session longer, with some courts staying open until December 23 (compared to last year, when most courts were closed by December 20).

So...can someone explain why we have an influx of indigent clients the "best economy ever"?

Now, there are a few factors in play.  The opioid/drug epidemic certainly plays as part, and I do live in a rural area.  But the fact remains that there is still a huge divide in the haves and the have-nots.  In an economy that is supposed to be great, the reality doesn't match the news that we see.

Trump's corruption is not the only thing that is being hidden right now.  


raindrop, Jeanne Mayell, Paul W and 8 people liked
(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 3877
01/02/2020 10:54 pm  

@allyn

In my first job, I worked in a Harvard/MIT think tank where, among other things,  we tested so-called Trickle Down economics. Trickle down economics is a favorite Republican hoax of giving tax cuts and "welfare for the rich"  to the rich while claiming it will trickle down to everyone else. It was famously promulgated by a conservative economist named Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago. Intelligent progressives roll their eyes at the idea. 

Like you said, money passed to the rich does not "trickle down."  It's been well researched that tax breaks to the rich are bad for the economy, especially when they make the deficit larger, as happened under all Republican administrations for the last three decades -- Bush #1, Bush #2, and Trump all ran up huge deficits. After Bush #1 ran a deficit, Bill Clinton actually ran a surplus but Bush #2 turned it into a deficit.  Republicans are not fiscal conservatives. That's another myth they love to tell.  They have a practice of running up deficits from tax breaks to the rich and military spending - all of which passes our tax dollars to the rich on the backs of our children and grandchildren. Then they tell everyone that Medicare for All and any other program that benefits the people will break the bank.   I think most people here know all this stuff so I will stop.  I am only writing it for those who are getting gas-lit.  


raindrop, Baba, seaturtle26 and 7 people liked
 lynn
(@lynnventura)
Reputable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 400
01/03/2020 8:23 am  

When George HW Bush ran against Reagan in the 1980 primaries, he called trickle down "voodoo economics."  Sensible republicans (now an extinct species) knew it was nonsense.  Yet Reagan sold it, and the GOP has been selling it for 40 years. What I can't figure out for the life of me is why democrats cannot message this issue and explain to people why this is one big scam. FORTY YEARS and no meaningful pushback or messaging that sticks, when doing so would be so easy. My brother has a theory that the reason is dems are as bad as the GOP. They may not take up bad policies but they won't challenge them because it's too inconvenient. 

I believe one of the reasons we are where we are in this country is that the opposing party to the GOP has been asleep for 40 years. I hope the rise of young people and women counteracts this incompetence. Otherwise I don't see an end to the GOP selling nonsense that people buy as if they were pearls of wisdom.

Btw, looks like trump's starting a war to avoid impeachment. The holiday calm is over. Cheers everyone!

 


raindrop, Lilinoe, Unk p and 4 people liked
(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 3877
01/03/2020 4:55 pm  

@elaineg

You can tell your Trump supporter friend that the markets just dipped after Trump attacked Iran's highest military general and then proudly tweeted about it. Nervous investors are transferring their of stocks to safe havens. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks/wall-street-dips-on-middle-east-tensions-weak-manufacturing-data-idUSKBN1Z210Y


Lilinoe, Unk p, Lenor and 1 people liked
(@elaineg)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 244
01/03/2020 7:22 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

I probably won't be talking to him much. I don't go out of my way to talk about trump here in Oklahoma. I was coming back into town last Sunday, after seeing the "Star Wars"  movie, and saw a red flag with the trump on it. made me feel a little sick.


(@paul-w)
Estimable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 199
01/03/2020 8:40 pm  

@allyn

"When will Republicans ever learn?" They already know good and well "trickle down" doesn't work, it results in less business investment than there would have been otherwise. (By creating an incentive to take $ out of a business as income rather than reinvesting it. Business investment is pre-tax.)

 


Lilinoe, Jeanne Mayell, Allyn and 1 people liked
(@5leafclover)
Trusted Member Registered
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
01/03/2020 11:19 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

       I think we have far more and worse to worry about than the stock market going bear. Oil prices have also jumped. That means we could see sticker shop at the gas pumps. Crude oil prices are the biggest single component in determining gasoline pump prices.

     One of  the things that has long bothered me about American policies in the middle east and northern Africa is our long pattern of supporting one group of Islamic terrorists to remove threats from another group of Islamic terrorists. What do we achieve by allying ourselves with Saudi Arabia against Iran? Saudi Arabia trained and financed the 9-11 terrorists as well as those who have committed other terrorist killings in Europe, America, and many other places.

     These policies didn't start with Trump. But neither has he crafted a sensible alternative. I really think that greed for money and power has long corrupted American foreign policy. Our foreign policy is too often based on what will enrich the powers that be or give America greater global hegemony.

     An unspoken motive for the recent assassination in Iran is Trump's desire to change the subject regarding the crimes that led to his impeachment and a possible trial for removal from office in the senate.


(@unk-p)
Reputable Member Registered
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 364
01/03/2020 11:48 pm  
Posted by: @5leafclover

   An unspoken motive for the recent assassination in Iran is Trump's desire to change the subject regarding the crimes that led to his impeachment and a possible trial fo

But the spoken motive, was when he accused Pres. Obama of wanting to start a war w Iran, so that he could stay in office.   Because every accusation is a confession for the orange bastard


Tiger-n-Owl, Lenor, seaturtle26 and 6 people liked
Page 4 / 19
Share: