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The Great Unraveling and the Great Turning - Rebuilding a Progressive America in the Future  

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(@stargazer)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 375
05/29/2020 11:43 am  

@northern_lights

My heart goes out to you in the wake of the atrocities that are being so blatantly manifested around you. 

What does it take to manifest compassion and humane decency? Does it take an intelligent person? An aware, soulful person? Or just a SANE person?

In this time of extreme crisis it seems that anger and aggression are being manifested as the 'norm', and the norm isn't pro-sanity.

You are certainly right about the Karma unfolding NL, and hopefully the good will outweigh these hits that we are taking as a Nation and as individuals who are invested in not only survival, but in coming through the chaos with some integrity.

Stay grounded in Spirit as it all comes to light. 💛


Lenor, TriciaCT, Laynara and 1 people liked
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(@deetoo)
Noble Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1354
05/29/2020 12:28 pm  

I love Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson.  Here is today's opinion piece about Floyd and how black lives remain expendable in this country.  

I hope you don't need a WP account to access the article.  If you do, then perhaps you can find it another way:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/black-lives-remain-expendable/2020/05/28/8d8d3fa2-a111-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_27


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(@elaineg)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 246
05/29/2020 12:51 pm  

@deetoo

You need an account, but I think they allow a few free pieces a month. I don;t even try to read the W. P. nor the NY Times which does the same thing.


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(@laura-f)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1613
05/29/2020 1:48 pm  

@northern_lights

I saw a video online this morning showing white people in hoodies and gas masks inciting looting and violence.  I have no way to know if it was real, but given what you are saying I think it's likely.

Never underestimate forces of evil and chaos.  White supremacists want to provoke a civil war. They'll do whatever they can to make it look like people of color are at fault for any violence. They are even beginning to dress like Antifa resisters, in an effort to smear them.

I think it's clear to all on here that the US hasn't been a true democracy ever, moreso since about 1980 and especially not since 2017. So nothing surprises me anymore.

Holding your fair city in light, in hopes it will shine on the truth.

Black Lives Matter.


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(@laura-f)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1613
05/29/2020 1:57 pm  

And here's a "fun" read for today:

Celebrity Apprentice Staffer Speaks Out

This person confirms my intuitions and suspicions very well.

 


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(@northern_lights)
Eminent Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 24
05/29/2020 2:00 pm  

Thank you everyone for the support. We are a beautiful city with usually wonderful people and things to do. Summertime is when we thrive the best and between this and Covid-19, its taken a toll. People are stressed and on edge.

The police officers involved have finally been taken into custody. Multiple days later. I hope that calms things somewhat because it's difficult to see the destruction and know what impact it has placed on the community and what it will take to move on.

This is just so very different right now. It bothers me immensely to see what is happening. I'm intentionally avoiding the word hate as well because of its energy.

Thank you all for your love and light. Big hugs. 🙂


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(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4137
05/29/2020 2:34 pm  

"These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!"

Twitter's response: The tweet is hidden by a notice from Twitter that it glorifies violence -- but is still viewable behind the notice.

"This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public's interest for the Tweet to remain accessible," says the notice.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protest-updates-05-28-20/h_6f10dcf88b9a8f2f2d7515417105f022


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(@ghandigirl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 314
05/29/2020 2:38 pm  

@northern_lights

@jaidy

 

I am so sorry for all that you are going through with this terrible injustice. To see your city afflicted this way has got to hurt so deeply. I share your pain and outrage.

I was encouraged yesterday to see a live peaceful protest happening there with a singer, and some inspiring speeches. Nonviolence will eventually prevail, it has to!

Should not have watched the video, turned it off too late. That poor man. Still calling that cop "Sir" as he was murdered by him for the whole world to see. Why are so many Americans so hateful and ignorant? Why can't they see we are the same, one race, Human? I feel like I lost a brother. 🙁

I don't know what to do to help. I feel so helpless and ashamed to be white. 

It is unfathomable the depths to which Trump has descended. It is madness. Calling for shooting the protestors, unbelievable but then again...predictable.

All I can do is shine my light and say no to all of it. I can picture comfort and healing and send it to all of you there. It doesn't feel like enough. 

 


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(@deetoo)
Noble Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1354
05/29/2020 2:43 pm  

@elaineg, I have a subscription to the WP, but also signed up for free access to the NY Times.  They occasionally send me an email to get me to purchase a full subscription, but that doesn't bother me.


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(@northern_lights)
Eminent Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 24
05/29/2020 2:45 pm  

For everyone, there has been a positive moment today when they announced they arrested the officers involved. That has been days coming.

My hope is our community can find peace and be better than we were.

The brutality, the destruction and mayhem and the impact to our community and most importantly our neighbors demands that.

My love and peace to you all.


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(@allyn)
Estimable Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 187
05/29/2020 4:21 pm  

@northern_lights

I agree that this arrest was a long time coming, but I wish that it hadn't have had to been under these circumstances.

First, please understand that I am an attorney (one of my areas is criminal defense), so I am looking at this from a different standpoint than most of the public.  Many people are seeing this case and thinking "they should have arrested the officer right away!"  So when it didn't happen, people got upset, and resulted to unpeaceful protests (burning and looting) to get their frustrations out.

Now, I am not blaming people for protesting.  The Predator in Chief threatens violence on them, but he is unhinged and no normal person would listen to him anyway.  But I must take up for the investigators in this matter and why I think a few days from the actual incident to the arrest is justified.

Consider if you are a defense attorney in this matter.  If they arrested the officer right away, any attorney worth his salt would have had the case thrown out for lack of evidence.  They would argue, "Yes, my client shouldn't have put his knee on the victim's neck!  But did he kill him?  We don't know if the victim died of other causes (a heart attack, overdose from drug use and stress from the situation, etc.)"

Basically, before charges could be filed, they needed the autopsy results.  Even with a rush order, it still takes a few days to complete (not just the exam, but sending blood and tissue samples back for analysis, etc.).  So I was expecting a few days between the incident and the arrest anyway, because no prosecutor who wants to win would proceed without at least the preliminary autopsy results.

Consider this:  let's say they arrested the officer right away, only to learn that the victim had died due to an unrelated health condition that was not caused by the incident.  Then you have a case where the officer will likely sue you for defamation and civil rights violations. 

However, I believe that the general public does not know this, so the delay in filing charges looked suspicious to them, which resulted in the protests.  Sadly, some participants did not stay peaceful.  This is very unfortunate.  Not only did the non-peaceful protesters hurt innocent business owners who had nothing to do with the incident, but they also will serve a purpose for the defense attorney who eventually represents the officer arrested on this matter.  By pointing to the rioting, the defense attorney will file various motions (change of venue chief amongst them), saying the officer can't possibly have a fair trial due to the publicity of the case.

Again, I am not blaming anyone for this (except Trump, because he is supposed to at least pretend he is semi-competent, but is once again engaging in acts of dividing and violence to feed his racist base).  I think the protestors have the right to be upset.  But I think that their actions may have made the prosecutor's job much tougher. 

I am posting this not to pass judgment on anyone or to disagree with the officer's arrest (I believe he should have been arrested.)  I am merely pointing out that there are several things that have to occur behind the scenes before prosecutors could go forward.  Now, I fear that the protestors may believe that it was their acts of vandalism that caused the arrest, and thus may resort to such acts in the future to facilitate quicker arrests or to protest acts of injustice.  And we already have a crazy person in the White House.  The last thing we need is for him to order his troops to fire on the protestors.  And believe me, he will do so.


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(@saibh)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 121
05/29/2020 4:41 pm  

As wonderful as Minneapolis and St Paul are, there is a long and ugly history of segregation. Google the Rondo neighborhood, as a starting point. We are consistently ranked one of the worst states for people of color, for racism. As a city, we have a LOT to do to change things. Getting rid of the president of the police union and all the policemen who he's protected over the years would be a start. Funding city schools would help. The neighborhoods that were destroyed last night need to be rebuilt. I have a number of friends out there today cleaning the the streets, delivering food and diapers to places that need help since they just lost their neighborhood stores. Public transportation is locked down, and someone I know is out giving rides to people who need it. Things are calmer and better today ... the presence of the National Guard is part of the reason why, but the arrest and charges of Third Degree murder and manslaughter of the officer who murdered Floyd is another reason. People are finally feeling heard. The police chief today condemned the "outside instigators" who came in and started the rioting and looting; city and neighborhood leaders know who were fanning the proverbial and literal flames, and they know it wasn't people from the neighborhood. That's good ... it will go a long way toward preventing retaliation and more upheaval. Watching the rioters take control of the police precinct last night was an unbelievable sight. I hope and pray tonight has peace and is a step toward reconciliation and honoring George Floyd. Friends are participating in a women's group protection barrier tonight, and I'm trying to get my husband on board with me going down there with them. It truly feels like last night was the fever, and now it's broken. I love my city, flaws and all, and hope there is a turning toward healing old wounds and moving forward in equality.


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(@lovendures)
Noble Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1689
05/29/2020 4:48 pm  

Here is another disturbing matter that happened during the riots.

From CNN:

Meantime, a CNN crew has been released from police custody in Minneapolis after they were arrested Friday during a live broadcast at the site after clearly identifying themselves to officers. CNN correspondent Omar Jimenez was placed in handcuffs while the cameras rolled, shortly followed by producer Bill Kirkos and photojournalist Leonel Mendez.
The state patrol said the crew was "released once they were confirmed to be members of the media." CNN disputed that characterization, saying, "Our CNN crew identified themselves, on live television, immediately as journalists."
"We're doing OK, now," Jimenez said, reporting again from downtown. "There were a few uneasy moments there."
 
CDS Link on the story
 
Our journalists need to be free to cover these events.

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(@northern_lights)
Eminent Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 24
05/29/2020 8:38 pm  

As of now 7:30pm, riots have resumed or are continuing. There is an 8pm curfew ordinance in effect for the next week. 

I just hope this doesn't truly end up violent...ie, bullets and sharp things


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(@jeanne-mayell)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4137
05/29/2020 9:08 pm  

@deetoo Thank you for posting the link. I shouldn't post so much, due to licensing issues, but everyone should read at least these few paragraphs. The rest is worth reading by clicking on the link:

Excerpted From WAPO today By Columnist Eugene Robinson: 

"Do you want to prevent the kind of rioting, looting and arson we have seen in Minneapolis this week? Then stop police officers and racist vigilantes from killing black men, like George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery. Stop treating African Americans like human trash and start treating us like citizens....

...Not only do these unwarranted killings of black men keep happening. They also keep going unpunished. 

Yes, Gregory and Travis McMichael — along with William “Roddie” Bryan Jr., who recorded Arbery’s killing on cellphone video — have been arrested and charged with murder. And yes, Derek Chauvin and the three other police officers who watched him kill Floyd have been fired, and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey has called for criminal charges to be filed against them.

But if the only result is another couple of trial-of-the-century media circuses that produce lots of drama and controversy but no justice, then nothing will change.

Please don’t try to tell me that somehow these killings are about anything other than race. Floyd, Arbery, Garner and Martin were unarmed. Castile was legally carrying his pistol; while black Americans didn’t always have Second Amendment rights, we do now. All of them are dead.

A mostly black crowd protesting Floyd’s killing, on the other hand, was met Tuesday night with tear gas and rubber bullets. City officials perceived the Minneapolis unrest as an emergency. This nation needs to understand that life-threatening racism is an emergency, too.


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(@deetoo)
Noble Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1354
05/29/2020 11:24 pm  

@jeanne-mayell,

Thanks, Jeanne. 

What I really loved about today's opinion piece was how personal it was to Robinson.  Eugene Robinson is this Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who has a huge platform via print and television, where he can openly express his views.  And yet he's no different from any other black parent who has to worry about his two sons having an encounter with the police.  Robinson could only imagine how he'd feel if he lacked his powerful position and platform -- to be one of the powerless and voiceless. You could feel his anger and pain.

 


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(@allyn)
Estimable Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 187
05/30/2020 1:09 am  

And here we are on Friday night.  Atlanta, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Knoxville, Denver, Louisville, etc. are engaged in various protests.  While the majority are peaceful, there has been pockets of violence, looting, and vandalism.

At this point, our President will issue a statement calling for peace and patience....

Who are we kidding?  We know exactly what Trump will do.  He will paint the protestors (peaceful and otherwise) as thugs and criminals, without any care as to whether some of them are genuinely anguished over the continued pain from our African American citizens.  Believe me, there will be no "there is good people on both sides" comments, like Trump did when he justified the rage of the white supremists in Charlottesville in 2017.

What Trump will do is obvious.  He will use this to stoke fears in his base.  He will try to blame Democratic mayors and governors for the riots (ignoring the fact that protestors are at his front door).  He will paint himself as the "Great White Defender" by making white Americans scared of the protestors. 

In a way, Trump has made this situation much, much worse.  By encouraging white supremist for years, he has created a sizable portion of the population who has no respect and/or faith in authority.  These same people have spent the last few years parading around with their guns, smug in the sense that they get to march around and terrorize the rest of us.  These same people do not call the police (having been taught not to trust the "government") and often resort to vigilante actions (stand your ground, unauthorized "border patrol," etc.)

Trump has used these people for years to try to keep the rest of us "in line" (aka-away from the ballot boxes via intimidation or apathy that things won't change).  He even encouraged them to protest against "stay at home orders" during the pandemic.

And now we have a situation where we have another group of protestors, angered at the blatant racism that has only seemed to have gotten worse instead of better.

I am fearful that Trump will encourage his followers to start "patrolling" areas in an attempt to deter protests under the guise of "protecting property." He will stoke his followers worst traits and will no doubt try to instigate a protest of his own, where his followers march down the streets with guns and signs which allegedly support law enforcement (even though these same followers would not give law enforcement any respect when they request stay at home orders). 

Normally, when these Trump followers meet counter-protesters, the counter protestors have held their own and have not engaged in violence.  But with the mood of the nation as it is right now, I am truly fearful that a group of Trump supporters will try to stop the protestors and/or intimidate them with their guns.  And if that happens right now, then someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed.

Not that Trump cares, of course.  He probably hopes for a conflict so that he can encourage his followers to vote for him (as well as patrol the voting booths with their firearms, no doubt.) 

I sincerely pray every day that the Trump nightmare will soon be over.  While I don't blame Trump for the covid 19 pandemic or these riots, we all know from experience that he will make a bad situation worse, as he rather stoke conflict instead of calling for peace.

(P.S.  How many of you are willing to bet that the first thing that the White House Staff did when the protestors showed up was to hide Trump's phone from him?  Because if Trump tweeted while the protestors will at their worst, I can only imagine his words would have incited further anger and violence.)


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(@stargazer)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 375
05/30/2020 3:15 am  

@allyn

This question has been with me for a very long time concerning law enforcement.

Why the hell aren't  prospective law officers given more rigorous psychological testing and background checks?

If you give a volatile unstable nutcase like the murderer of Mr Floyd the ultimate power, as even in our World Before, it's a powder keg waiting to blow. 

Long gone are the days of the 'peace officer'. They are trained to be predators in truth for the most part and get drunk on power and adrenaline far too often in scenes that require sane response.

Would that the 'official murderer' gets everything coming to him along with his bystanding Bros who allowed him to carry out his insanity in the most heineous way.

My prayers for peace and solace go out to Mr Floyd's family, and may this not be forgotten any time soon. It can't be just 'business as usual' anymore.


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(@allyn)
Estimable Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 187
05/30/2020 3:46 am  

@stargazer

Why do you think I became a defense attorney?  Because sometimes I am the only weapon a defendant has against unruly officers.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  While the vast majority of officers are good, decent people, some of them are not.  It is hard not to let the power go to your head, and a badge gives you power and respect that a civilian can only dream of.  When I try cases, I have to deal with "police bias," as both the judge and jury tend to give police officers wide deference and will almost always believe the officer's story over the defendant's story.  If there is a police camera (which doesn't happen often), it is usually incomplete because the officer doesn't turn it on until after he initiates contact with the defendant.  Therefore, if there is a dispute as to why a person is pulled over, the cop almost always wins because he can say "the defendant was speeding" or "the defendant crossed the line" and there is nothing to dispute it. 

Until culture changes, then we will face this problem over and over again.  If I were to change a few things that would result in far fewer deaths and/or incidences with police, it would be the following:

1. Better training.  Although cops do receive good training, it tends to focus on certain areas and neglect others.  I would like it if they took more psychology/sociology/human sensitivity classes.  I would like for them to take psychology tests to see if some are harboring mental issues that may result in behavior the incidents of violence we see now.

2. Video camera.  All the time, every moment.  From as many angles as possible (dash camera and personal camera).  If everything is filmed, we are less likely to see the actions that caused Mr. Floyd's death.

3.  Independent oversight.  Right now, jurisdictions have discretion on whether they investigate their own officers or if they ask an outside party to do the investigation.  This is a BIG MISTAKE!!!!  If it were up to me, any time an officer faced a case like this, the police force and the district attorney should immediately turn the case over to someone outside the jurisdiction.  Remember the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri?  One of the biggest problems with that case was that the district attorney refused to turn the case over to an independent jurisdiction and decided to try the case himself.  This lead to accusations of police cover-up and bias in favor for the officer.  Regardless of how you stand on that case, it was tainted because of the perception that the investigation wasn't done fairly.

Already, I noticed that the autopsy report for Mr. Floyd has the taint of bias.  The coroner who did the report works often with the police force involved in this matter.  I would have preferred that a coroner outside the jurisdiction (with no ties to the police department) to conduct the preliminary autopsy.  Again, it doesn't matter whether or not this coroner is correct or not as to Mr. Floyd's cause of death.  It is the perception that matters.

We recently had another example of this bias in Georgia, when Mr. Arbury was killed while jogging.  While the men who killed him technically were not officers, one of them was a former officer who worked closely with the district attorney's office.  Therefore, there was a perception of bias in that no charges were filed for months even though the video clearly shows a murder.  If the district attorney had called in an independent investigator (such as the Georgia Bureau of Investigation), then the community would at least had the knowledge that a cover-up was unlikely, as the independent investigator would have less of a motive for covering up a shooting than a district attorney who may know the shooter would.

Again, these are steps that I think all jurisdictions should take if they want to stop the incidences (or at least limit them) before they result in the level of rage we see now.


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(@allyn)
Estimable Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 187
05/30/2020 3:46 am  

@stargazer

Why do you think I became a defense attorney?  Because sometimes I am the only weapon a defendant has against unruly officers.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  While the vast majority of officers are good, decent people, some of them are not.  It is hard not to let the power go to your head, and a badge gives you power and respect that a civilian can only dream of.  When I try cases, I have to deal with "police bias," as both the judge and jury tend to give police officers wide deference and will almost always believe the officer's story over the defendant's story.  If there is a police camera (which doesn't happen often), it is usually incomplete because the officer doesn't turn it on until after he initiates contact with the defendant.  Therefore, if there is a dispute as to why a person is pulled over, the cop almost always wins because he can say "the defendant was speeding" or "the defendant crossed the line" and there is nothing to dispute it. 

Until culture changes, then we will face this problem over and over again.  If I were to change a few things that would result in far fewer deaths and/or incidences with police, it would be the following:

1. Better training.  Although cops do receive good training, it tends to focus on certain areas and neglect others.  I would like it if they took more psychology/sociology/human sensitivity classes.  I would like for them to take psychology tests to see if some are harboring mental issues that may result in behavior the incidents of violence we see now.

2. Video camera.  All the time, every moment.  From as many angles as possible (dash camera and personal camera).  If everything is filmed, we are less likely to see the actions that caused Mr. Floyd's death.

3.  Independent oversight.  Right now, jurisdictions have discretion on whether they investigate their own officers or if they ask an outside party to do the investigation.  This is a BIG MISTAKE!!!!  If it were up to me, any time an officer faced a case like this, the police force and the district attorney should immediately turn the case over to someone outside the jurisdiction.  Remember the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri?  One of the biggest problems with that case was that the district attorney refused to turn the case over to an independent jurisdiction and decided to try the case himself.  This lead to accusations of police cover-up and bias in favor for the officer.  Regardless of how you stand on that case, it was tainted because of the perception that the investigation wasn't done fairly.

Already, I noticed that the autopsy report for Mr. Floyd has the taint of bias.  The coroner who did the report works often with the police force involved in this matter.  I would have preferred that a coroner outside the jurisdiction (with no ties to the police department) to conduct the preliminary autopsy.  Again, it doesn't matter whether or not this coroner is correct or not as to Mr. Floyd's cause of death.  It is the perception that matters.

We recently had another example of this bias in Georgia, when Mr. Arbury was killed while jogging.  While the men who killed him technically were not officers, one of them was a former officer who worked closely with the district attorney's office.  Therefore, there was a perception of bias in that no charges were filed for months even though the video clearly shows a murder.  If the district attorney had called in an independent investigator (such as the Georgia Bureau of Investigation), then the community would at least had the knowledge that a cover-up was unlikely, as the independent investigator would have less of a motive for covering up a shooting than a district attorney who may know the shooter would.

Again, these are steps that I think all jurisdictions should take if they want to stop the incidences (or at least limit them) before they result in the level of rage we see now.


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