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(@tgraf66)
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Posted by: @charmandernat

I have an account with Prudential because my community college gave me the 401k. 

Check with the community college to see if they have anyone there to advise you, and if they don't, they should at least be able to get you in touch with a live Prudential person either on campus or locally where you live.


   
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(@drolma)
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The "economists" at a forum I attended say the economy will recover in 2022. I can see housing market remain strong but how could this be possible? Are they speaking for only those people with means, those who "have", not the "have-not"?


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@drolma 

Before the economy crashed, there were two economies that have been splitting further apart since the early 1980's, one for the wealthy or the 1% and one for everyone else. Nothing has changed from that set-up, and it is a set-up.  The economy for the 99 percent has been in decline for three decades.  People make less money, take home less, pay a greater share of their incomes for housing. While employment was high, people were still struggling to make ends meet.  Then Covid caused markets to crash and unemployment to skyrocket.  

My economic prediction does is not based on any of  these facts, but by what I was shown by spirit years ago and posted on my Prediction Page -- a crash in 2020 that does not return us to "normal" until 2028. It isn't just about the stock market; it is well-being.  It is how people feel in their daily lives.  I see 2028 as  true restoration, as the collective adjusting to the reality that we must wake up and change this market system that is driving us off a cliff.   When it does restore, I can't say what it will mean for the stock markets, but we feel good.

The stock market relies on continuous never ending growth.  Continuous growth means continuous eating up of earth's resources, and burning fossil fuels, which means degradation of our earth. Continuous growth simply cannot happen any more. We have run out of resources for continue growth.  We can't have it both ways. We have to protect nature, conserve natural resources, stop throwing away clothes and materials and buying new stuff just to help corporations get profit. Reuse, recycle, protect the earth. 

So the basic structure of society has to change.  I see a new world forming, one that is fairer and kinder and has a better quality of life for more people.  Not richer, not more stuff.  Sustainable.

BTW, Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman predicts a worsening economy (and I would agree fully with him) if Trump is reelected and if the GOP remains in power.  The Republicans are bad for the economy.  They are like locusts.

If the dems are elected and take over the government, it will take time to rebuild what was destroyed. But we will be happier knowing we are building something good. However, even if the dems are reelected, as long as the country is heavily influenced by profiteers, they won't be able to make the changes needed. It's going to take a longer time for us to adjust to the reality that we can't keep using up earth's resources and burning fossil fuels.  The vision I had that I keep writing about indicates that it will be near the end of this decade for us to finally do what is necessary to live in harmony with the earth. The GOP will have to go. 


   
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(@drolma)
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@jeanne-mayell Thank you. It saddens me to hear two economists speaking on behalf of the 1% at the annual economic outlook event of our local chamber of commerce. They pretty much ignore the sufferings of the have-nots. Some "economists". 


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@drolma No need to be sad any more than you'd feel when you read what Fox News says.   There are right wing economists, just like there are right wing psychologists and right wing psychics.  They are just pundits with an opinion.  Some economists routinely use their predictions to boost investments.  Others predict to help their political party.  It's just the way it is.  I would not read the economic forecasts of someone unless I knew their backgrounds and their long term track records. 


   
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 stu
(@stu)
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@jeanne-mayell

If things return to normal in 2028 isn't the big crash right around the corner in 2030? or do you feel it's later than that?


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@drolma I don't know if your local economists, the ones who talked about at 2022 recovery,  are right or left wing.  I was generalizing about economists who are out in cyberspace making predictions. 

Perhaps your economists are using honest indicators and perhaps they are even correct.  Certainly once a vaccine is working and distributed, around 2022, then much recovery in the markets will happen.  But what is meant by "recovery"?  If we continue to destroy the planet just so oil companies can thrive, and just so business in general can keep selling stuff, that is not a recovery.  People will make money again, but we will be running on empty and when we are empty, the crash will be irreversible.  

My 2013/4 vision posted on this site showed a downward slide starting late 2019 and full on in 2020 and a later recovery that I thought began right away but takes until 2028 to bring us back to former normalcy.   But this was not a traditional crash and recovery.  But it's not just about the markets.  It's about the collective well-being. 

When I initially got that vision I thought is was of the stock markets. But over time I realized it was a measure of the U.S. Collective emotional state. Usually the Collective emotional state corresponds closely to the Collective's economic well being.  But today, many people feel that the stock market is not a reflection of the people's economic well being.  It is just the value of stocks sold on the Dow Jones Industrial Exchange. 

Thus the econmists you quoted could be right, that the markets "recover" in 2022.

I am simply not focused on the markets per se but on the collective well-being of the majority of people in the U.S. and industrial societies.  So in 2020, we had the biggest crash ever in the history of this country in terms of highest unemployment. We have also been abused by the leader, gaslighted every day.  The collective morale in this country is in the dog house. Our economy is not sustainable. We are running on empty.  I feel the true recovery comes in 2028 when we have smart honest people in charge (a lot of women and caring men)  and we have shifted to a sustainable economy and are truly addressing climate justice and turning around climate change. 

@stu asked me when the big crash was coming. Stu, if you are talking about the stock market, I don't know. I am not predicting the stock market.  When I do a reading of the future, I focus on the overall collective state of mind.  I realize I need to clarify that.  The unemployment rate in 2020 shot to the highest it has ever been.  That, to me, IS a big crash, Stu.


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Perhaps @coyote and others will weigh in on what I am speaking about.  I am trying to state what I mean by "the economy." Over the last ten years, I use to get actual market indicators in my meditations.  I'd see a correction and then new highs. And often they'd happen.  One market trader reached out to me years ago to tell me my market predictions were right on target.  But after that I stopped seeing those indicators in visions.  I just don't think they reflect the collective wellbeing any more. So I don't see them because I focus on the emotional health of the collective. 


   
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 stu
(@stu)
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I think the stock market is totally unhinged from reality, it's become a giant Ponzi scheme where cash is parked because there's no better place to invest it. Interest rates offer low returns and investing in any industry has become risky since the 2008 crash. 

The stock market is made up of less and less companies.

"In 1997, there were roughly 7,500 publicly traded companies in the United States. That number has since fallen by half, to around 3,600 — a startling trend when you consider that the economy has more than doubled in size over the same period"

and it doesn't represent small businesses or communities.

 

this article explains it all:

"What Is the Stock Market Even for Anymore?"

"With the economy in free fall, the resilience of share prices defies the misfortunes of most Americans."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/26/magazine/stock-market-coronavirus-pandemic.html?action=click&module=Top

 

I kinda thought there would be a giant crash around 2030, due to climate change? crops would fail, the weather would become so extreme and the current way capitalism operates wouldn't be possible. Humanity would shift to working in different ways and a fight for it's own survival, there wouldn't be a return to the old ways. Perhaps I've read between the lines somewhere?


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Posted by: @stu

I kinda thought there would be a giant crash around 2030, due to climate change? crops would fail, the weather would become so extreme and the current way capitalism operates wouldn't be possible. Humanity would shift to working in different ways and a fight for it's own survival, there wouldn't be a return to the old ways. Perhaps I've read between the lines somewhere?

Well, if we continue with Trump and the GOP and the dark money oligarchs in charge then the climate picture will be dire.

The Club of Rome, a group of highly intelligent global policy experts from a wide range of disciplines, back in the 1970's, created a computer simulation that showed that if we continued extracting resources from the earth at the rate we were doing it then, given population growth, all economic growth will plummet sometime after 2000.

 They were not even including climate change in their model.

You can find them online at https://clubofrome.org, but you will also find, if you google them, some false  conspiracy theories about them, so ignore that.  After their report was published in the early 1970's it was translated into 30 languages and the environmental movement began in earnest. Today they are essentially a global think tank and many of the members are professionally tied to global policy non governmental organizations and the United Nations.


   
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 stu
(@stu)
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Thanks Jeanne, We studied the club of Rome in my geography classes back in the 90s.

I don't think climate change can be stopped now, there's no way the world's economies can change enough in such a short space of time. Having a third of the world shut down over covid barely even changed the dial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-53681096

Governments are slow to act and western / developing economies will be even slower to make changes after the economic fall out from covid.

America is just one country and it can't stop climate change on it's own. The future predictions show a climate disaster about to unfold?

and in previous threads I think you said 2020 was a dress rehearsal for what's to come?


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@stu, thank you for your perspective.  I have many visuals of the long term future. Since it is not cast in concrete, because we can change it,  I am holding off on going there. If Biden wins and we see substantial progress towards sustainability, then visions will be more reliable.  But I'm not saying anything here you don't already know. 

And there is hope, because there are pathways to the future that we don't know about yet. 

I feel it's a certainty that all the glaciers will melt and seas will rise 230 feet. I don't think it is worth the money to try to save cities with sea level barriers.  Also sea level rise is probably the most benign part of climate change, even though it means all of the coastal cities and properties for miles inland will be gone with all of their history.

But there are many pathways to a better outcome if we can get the right people in power. 

I said that covid was a dress rehearsal for climate change because both covid and climate change were growing exponentially. we learned from the exponential growth of covid that we can't wait to see a natural disaster with our own eyes before we take action.  We have to take action much earlier. Although the president ignored covid, many government leaders and public health leaders did act to prevent an even worse outcome than we had. Covid cases were doubling quickly to the shock of many.  Well, climate change is escalating along similar exponential curves.  Many have learned from Covid to act when science tells us what is coming. 

 


   
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 newb
(@newb)
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@jeanne-mayell  , from the investment point of view, the stock market has crashed in 2020 but it is at all time highs now, do you think it is sustainable? And also what about the dollar? 

I've seen some posts on this forum about hyperinflation and depression in past couple of years, did the timelines changed or are we still going to experience depression?

 

@deetoo I'd appreciate your input too. Thanks!


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@newb We will have to see what happens during the next Read the Future night. I'm going to set it for February 8. I had seen the 2020 crash coming, but I didn't think it would crash in 2021.  I had felt that we'd be slowly working our way back to wholeness by 2028.  I now realize I was seeing Collective well-being, not the stock market. Yes the markets did crash in 2020, but they came back. The Collective well being crashed and we are on our way back, but it will take time. The stock market is not related to collective well-being any more. Maybe it never was. 


   
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(@jsr78)
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@jeanne-mayell The stock market is for big companies, they should be fine. The problem is small business, bars, restaurants, shops a lot of employees not getting their tips. A lot of the people who were upset in Washington DC were small business owners along with the racists and fascists. Main street is the big problem. 


   
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(@walden-ponderer)
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Recent polls have shown that people trust big business more than government.

Capitalism is the true American religion, and it is, naturally, a false God. The painful course correction in the Collective is divorced entirely from our contemporary measurements of "the economy". I personally would argue that the Happiness Index is not just the most important economic statistic, it is the only important one. And it's not very high right now... though probably higher today than it was yesterday!! Tee-hee!!


   
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(@dannyboy)
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@walden-ponderer My mother fell down the Trump rabbit hole and anytime I brought up one of his numerous crimes she said "Boy, but the stock market sure is doing well."  As if 1)  I had money in the stock market, and 2) All of that excused the bad actions.

I anticipate a market correction at some point.  This isn't a intuitive prediction, it's a long overdue economic reality.  This growth isn't based on sustainable holdings.  I'm hopeful it won't be huge (My guess is, if we track what the Obama era economy was on track for, we'll see it bottom out somewhere around 24-25,000) I'm also hopeful it'll be recognized for what it is, and not as a result of Biden policy (in my mind, the sooner the correction the better - I mean, people still try to pin the great recession on Obama even though it was Bush era policies falling apart, and Obama wasn't even President when it started.)  No doubt the right will pin anything bad that happens on Biden and say anything good that happens was a result of Trump era policies.

We have GOT to get a stimulus that goes to working Americans passed and quickly.  NO MORE HANDOUTS TO CORPORATIONS.  Trickle UP economics folks.  Let's make that a thing.

 


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Posted by: @walden-ponderer

I personally would argue that the Happiness Index is not just the most important economic statistic, it is the only important one. And it's not very high right now... though probably higher today than it was yesterday!! Tee-hee!!

@walden-ponderer I agree whole heartedly with you about the happiness index!  Happiness is what I believe spirit was showing me back in 2013 when I saw a graph of the future. I believe that collective happiness is going to be the new barometer we will use rather than the stock market to measure our well being. 

Also I think that poll you mention is misleading, if they are touting that people trust business more than government.

My empathy-radar tells me that trust in business ranges widely among the population but is mostly low, along with people's trust in all big institutions, including government.  

People feel disenfranchised, forgotten, that the big power players don't care about them. People feel that big business is about profit only.  That the only thing that protects people from business vulturism is businesses need to protect their brands.  

I did find the business poll you mentioned and it's one huge poll by a pro-business public relations company.  https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-trust-in-business-than-in-government-and-media-survey-finds-11610533801

here is the direct information by the firm: https://www.edelman.com/trust/2021-trust-barometer


   
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 CC21
(@cc21)
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Posted by: @jeanne-mayell
Posted by: @stu
Posted by: @laura-f

My husband and I are having intermittent conversations on where we'd go if we have to leave California because we couldn't afford to stay. Somewhere cold and isolated... but not Canada (LOL I totally would, but he's opposed to emigrating and it would have to be up to him to get work there).

I think it's been said on here before that the great lakes could be a soft landing spot if climate change becomes more apparent towards 2030 as it's a good freshwater resource.

During a reading in 2013, I saw the Great Lakes as a mecca in the future. I posted it here in a few different places.Then I later discovered they are the largest body of fresh water in the world. 

@jeanne-mayell Jeanne's prediction of the Great Lakes region becoming a center point for migration due to climate change has been mentioned here many times. I just saw a headline this morning about a new book mentioning this:

Michigan will be the best place to live by 2050 because of climate change, new book says

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2021/11/michigan-will-be-the-best-place-to-live-by-2050-because-of-climate-change-new-book-says.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=aanews_sf&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2r3PyF5MMGGFvFhZd94il4hiSw8Hk06NMpfg0lJfjvQkBo9g4OdQskgVQ

Here is the link to the book on Amazon:

Move: The Forces Uprooting Us, by Parag Khanna

https://smile.amazon.com/Move-Forces-Uprooting-Parag-Khanna/dp/1982168978/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_g4368549507?_encoding=UTF8&%2AVersion%2A=1&%2Aentries%2A=0&ie=UTF8

It looks like an interesting read - I majored in geography years ago, so the discussion of human geography and migration is particularly interesting to me. Thought some of you here might be interested as well.


   
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(@dannyboy)
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@cc21 Sounds like a good reason I should share with my wife as a check in the"fix up our farmhouse and keep our slice of 3 acres" vs move closer to the nearby town :-)  


   
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