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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/04/2020 2:02 pm  

@lucieshelly I understand and wish to welcome you.  I believe we are going to be okay, less rich, but really truly okay.   The outcome of the next election is important to how soon we can recover from all of it which is probably why there is so much interest in the politics.  

We've been heading towards a cliff for 50 years, but we can slow it down and turn it around with the right leadership.  There is still oodles of hope but now it comes with pain and hard work. Hard work is actually good.


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(@bluebelle)
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Posts: 673
07/04/2020 7:22 pm  

@lucieshelly

Welcome!  Like you, I sure think about my financial situation and how best to prepare for the coming year.  For a while now, I've been out of the market and just watching and waiting.  I do feel that the market is in a bubble and like Jeanne, feel that it has been manipulated for several years now.  It's irrational.  In meditation, I did see the market fall a second time, maybe late summer?  I'm not alway good on dates, but that's my gut feeling and I think it will coincide with Wall Street coming to terms with the reality of a second wave.  @Laura-f wrote about our country's patchwork strategy in dealing with the pandemic and yes, the patchwork response does not work.  So, with a second wave, the country will have to grapple with a new reality: how to finally slowdown the pandemic.       

Sometimes I wonder now if there will be a noticeable lull between the first wave and the second.  It's pretty much a hot mess.

Jeanne's advice is the best.  Save money and pay off debt.  Both those strategies will make you more secure in uncertain times.  We are absolutely going to get through this.  Follow your own gut instincts, too, because that's your own intuition guiding you.  We all have that inner guidance and just need to recognize it.  

I'm glad you've joined us.  Namaste.


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/05/2020 12:46 am  

Thank you, @bluebelle.  I love your words. 


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 CC21
(@cc21)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 220
07/05/2020 9:31 am  

@laura-f

Ooo - St. Joseph is very pretty. I have never been, but know people vacation over there. Anything on the lake will be beautiful, but lake-effect snow will definitely be a challenge. Don’t forget - a Detroit (3 hours away) is right across the river from Windsor Canada. And there is also a border crossing at Port Huron. 😉


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/13/2020 1:45 pm  

This morning, a highly placed market analyst said what I've been saying for years, although he said it far better and he's far more qualified to say it:

 “The stock market and the economy have parted ways,” says Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics. “I’m not sure what will trigger a sustained sell-off in stocks, but surging [virus] infections and another round of more business closures will be difficult for investors to ignore much longer.”   

I read his remarks in an opinion piece by Robert Samuelson that criticized The Washington Post for reporting on the stock market as if it is an indicator of the U.S. economy, when it is not. 

For many years and more so in the Trump years, the stock market does not reflect the economic well-being of workers and the population.  It reflects the prices of stocks that are in turn manipulated by the Administration to make it look like the economy is doing well. 

Trump is desperate to keep the stores and schools open for just that reason - so people will buy stuff and the markets won't crash and then he and the Senate won 't lose the elections.  They know that a real economic crash will cost them the election.

This paragraph stands out: Just last week, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) — a group of 36 countries — issued its forecast for the United States through 2021. It is unlikely to inspire much cheering. Acknowledging that much depends on the severity of the coronavirus, the OECD report constructs two scenarios: one that might be termed “pessimistic” and a second that is “more pessimistic.”

 


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(@jessi1978)
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Posts: 562
07/13/2020 7:52 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

The economy is never going to be great. He and his republicans cronies are opening too fast and now schools. The only thing that they are achieving is making more people sick and having to close down business again. That is why he is trying to discredit Fauci and the CDC

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/providing-evidence-trump-tweets-message-attacking-cdc-doctors/story?id=71749066


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(@triciact)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 910
07/14/2020 9:24 am  

@lucieshelly

Welcome to this lovely forum Lucieshelly!  I see that Jeanne and others answered your question about the economy. I can tell you one thing: I do see a resurgence of the virus, mostly because of the mishandling by tRump & many in the GOP states who are suffering right now. If those states had not shirked the virus as a hoax and shut down when NY, Cali, CT, NJ, etc. all did - the entire country - for 3 weeks, I felt it would have popped up in places then left, and that a treatment would have been available for the cases that did arise in Wintertime. The vaccine won't be here till next year (one that is truly helpful anyway, not a "first try").

Unfortunately, I feel the economy is and will continue to suffer. However, I feel we will get through it. As Jeanne has stated, just without so much "stuff" as before. People will live more simply. Travel will be the biggest change, folks will not take as many vacations etc. Bars will not be doing well for a while either. It will be a while till there is a new "normal" but until we realize we must change the environment along with that new normal, the earth will continue to slap us around since time is not on our side. The environment and the earth will also change. My feeling is when you see governments, people first, all working to help the planet, the economy will also start to thrive in very new ways.

Take heart, change is difficult but necessary. Sending love and light will help us all 🙂 🌺 🌼 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/14/2020 9:40 am  
Posted by: @stu
Posted by: @laura-f

My husband and I are having intermittent conversations on where we'd go if we have to leave California because we couldn't afford to stay. Somewhere cold and isolated... but not Canada (LOL I totally would, but he's opposed to emigrating and it would have to be up to him to get work there).

I think it's been said on here before that the great lakes could be a soft landing spot if climate change becomes more apparent towards 2030 as it's a good freshwater resource.

During a reading in 2013, I saw the Great Lakes as a mecca in the future. I posted it here in a few different places.Then I later discovered they are the largest body of fresh water in the world. 


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(@laura-f)
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07/14/2020 11:53 am  

@jeanne-mayell

I think I mentioned it, but we have close friends who moved from NYC area to St. Joseph MI, right on the lake.  Their kids are also grown and I have no doubts that if we were in dire need, they would take us in or help us get set up in their community (the wife is from that area and in the past when they were in need we helped them). The issue for right now is that it's still solid Drumpf country, our friends were more hopeful things would be changing by now (they moved there in 2018), but so far they report it's getting worse.


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 CC21
(@cc21)
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Posts: 220
07/14/2020 3:54 pm  

@laura-f

We are in the liberal bubble that is Ann Arbor, but most of the rest of Michigan is like you said - solid T country, unfortunately. 


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(@tgraf66)
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07/14/2020 6:40 pm  

I moved from Indiana to California to escape winter (and being in a red state!) 12 years ago.  I'd really rather not move back to that area, but if needs must....*sigh*


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/21/2020 6:06 pm  

Well now, finally large U.S. investors are figuring out that climate change will crash the economy. I'm not sure what took them so long. Today the NY Times published a letter sent by a group of large investors worth a trillion dollars that warn that climate change threatens to crash the economy.  

They call for policy changes  and interestingly don't bother to reach out to the GOP leadership or Mr. Trump, who says climate change is a hoax, but to Biden.  

They included a call to the S.E.C to force companies to disclose the location of their physical assets, such as factories and other facilities. That way, investors can gauge the risks facing those facilities from wildfires, hurricanes or flooding, and push companies to address them. Investors would then be able to choose whether to invest based on that information.  So the stock quotes of publicly traded companies who are vulnerable would reflect their climate vulnerability.

They also call for the Federal Reserve to require big banks to include a climate stress factor when they make business loans in order to avoid an economy-wide crash when climate disasters start piling up. This would mean that, for example, if someone is building their auto plant, hotel, or condo complex on the coast where they are vulnerable to climate-related storm surges, they have to factor in climate vulnerability in giving the loan.

I predicted here way back that homeowners would discover they couldn't get insurance coverage and mortgages on coastal properties at some point which in turn means that the flight from the coasts will happen even before the seas actually inundate people's homes.  (Incidentally, in a spooky coincidence, there'sa story today about luxury properties falling into the sea in Australia). 

Climate activist Bill McKibben has been warning for decades that municipal budgets would be wiped out by climate disasters when bridges and roads are systematically destroyed by storms.  He had a plan back then that would have avoided the whole problem, but the fossil fuel industry bought the politicians so nothing was done.  Now we just have to get rid of the orange fool and his followers. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/climate/investors-climate-threat-regulators.html#click=https://t.co/thUAPeTrHK


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(@bmaaack)
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08/05/2020 12:15 pm  

Is there anything we can see about what happens to the millions of middle class invested in 401k and stock market with their life savings?  If the financial world changes so much in the future, what happens to all the investments so many people have made for their futures?


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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08/05/2020 4:35 pm  

@bmaaack A vision I had years back about the 2020 crash showed the market returning in 2028.  Many companies will die and be replaced by new ones whose activities fit the new normal that is unfolding.  Over the long-term, economic growth will have to be sustainable or a crash will come that won't recover. When I close my eyes, I see a Wall Street building with a giant wind mill superimposed over it.  


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(@charmandernat)
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Joined: 1 month ago
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08/06/2020 1:03 am  
Posted by: @bmaaack

Is there anything we can see about what happens to the millions of middle class invested in 401k and stock market with their life savings?  If the financial world changes so much in the future, what happens to all the investments so many people have made for their futures?

I wonder about this too since I worked as a teacher for 10 years and have a 401K with Prudential. 


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(@mas1581)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 415
08/06/2020 2:05 am  

@charmandernat

If you are scared about your 401k and want to hedge your investment, place half in gold and half in the market. They run opposite of each other so if the market completely crashes, gold will rise and it will even out. 


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(@charmandernat)
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Joined: 1 month ago
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08/06/2020 10:25 pm  
Posted by: @mas1581

@charmandernat

If you are scared about your 401k and want to hedge your investment, place half in gold and half in the market. They run opposite of each other so if the market completely crashes, gold will rise and it will even out. 

How do I put half of it in gold? I am new to this.


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(@tgraf66)
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Posts: 111
08/06/2020 10:40 pm  

@charmandernat  I would strongly advise you to talk to your 401K administrator or the person/company who does the actual investing before you make any changes.  You want to keep yourself diversified (not all in one thing or another or even in two or three things), but you also want to try to stay in relatively safe investments.  Depending on your age and the time you have left before you retire, you'll need to decide (with competent advice) how much risk you're willing to tolerate and structure your investments accordingly.

Once you've done that, remember that investing is a long-term game.  You might make a lot in a short time, and then lose that and maybe more in a short time as well.  However, until you withdraw your money, it's just numbers on a sheet, not real money.  You don't actually gain or lose anything unless and until you take your money out of the investment.

What you need to look at is the long term trend.  As I said, you'll see daily, weekly, monthly, and even annual gains/losses, so yes, keep an eye on them and watch the trends up or down, but as long as your investments are gaining over the long haul, leave them alone for the most part.

Also remember that any investment person you talk to has a finger in the pie.  They get paid to do your investing for you, so they may try to steer you to things that will make money for them, but not necessarily for you.  Most reputable investment firms are more careful about that because they have to maintain their reputations, but it's something to keep in the back of your mind at all times. 


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(@charmandernat)
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Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
08/06/2020 11:15 pm  
Posted by: @tgraf66

@charmandernat  I would strongly advise you to talk to your 401K administrator or the person/company who does the actual investing before you make any changes.  You want to keep yourself diversified (not all in one thing or another or even in two or three things), but you also want to try to stay in relatively safe investments.  Depending on your age and the time you have left before you retire, you'll need to decide (with competent advice) how much risk you're willing to tolerate and structure your investments accordingly.

Once you've done that, remember that investing is a long-term game.  You might make a lot in a short time, and then lose that and maybe more in a short time as well.  However, until you withdraw your money, it's just numbers on a sheet, not real money.  You don't actually gain or lose anything unless and until you take your money out of the investment.

What you need to look at is the long term trend.  As I said, you'll see daily, weekly, monthly, and even annual gains/losses, so yes, keep an eye on them and watch the trends up or down, but as long as your investments are gaining over the long haul, leave them alone for the most part.

Also remember that any investment person you talk to has a finger in the pie.  They get paid to do your investing for you, so they may try to steer you to things that will make money for them, but not necessarily for you.  Most reputable investment firms are more careful about that because they have to maintain their reputations, but it's something to keep in the back of your mind at all times. 

I am 35 years old so I cannot retire anytime soon. I have an account with Prudential because my community college gave me the 401k. 


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(@mas1581)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 415
08/06/2020 11:34 pm  

@charmandernat

Tgraf is correct. You should always consult multiple people, if possible, before making a big change. If you do decide to buy gold, you can buy it from any number of gold retailers online, or even on eBay for that matter. Just make sure to check pricing against gold spot price when you buy. There is a small markup over spot in general but you do not want to overpay, as you are buying actual bars/coins that you will have possession of, as opposed to stocks in a portfolio.


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