Taking Young Children from their Parents for a Misdemeanor is an Atrocity

I have a feeling that down the road that all these people that are so proud of themselves for doing this are going to suffer greatly, I don't know how but just feel that good things will not be coming their way and am grateful that I won't be one of them.

this is fascism. The people doing this are behaving in ways similar to the Nazis. And when sessions and others quote the bible to justify this policy of their implementation it reminds me of other moments from history. The southern slave owners who justified slavery by quoting the bible and the many churches that worked with the Nazi's during the second world war. I'm so scared for those kids, the pain inflicted on them is horrific.

Natalie, yes, agree.  Trump is morphing into the monster fascist we'd seen all along. 

What they're doing is unconstitutional. The ACLU is suing over it and I think they will prevail.  It's horrifying but it won't last.  In the meantime even right wing evangetical leaders are voicing pretty strong opposition. Even Franklin Graham opposes it, which says a lot.

I feel this will be one of the catalysts that helps the blue wave in November, which, at this point, is the only thing that can serve as a check on this monster of a president. As morally repugnant as this policy is, it is shining a light on just how cruel this trump and has administration are. They won't be able to hide from this. 

As he does worse things and gets away with them, there is no change to stop him. The GOP continues to be quiet and the Democrats are sending me emails and going on talk shows. So who is running the country? Trump and the wealthy that support him. If it’s not a fascist state, what is it?

Fox continues to be complicit as its loyal viewers continue to believe all is fantastic. How do we hold them responsible for the damage they are doing as well?

Anita

Natalie, I agree that this is Fascism. We don’t know what to reference, though, so we haven’t had a way to talk about it except to compare it to the NAZIs. I just started reading a book that really helped me to comprehend what it is precisely. It’s Putin’s favorite fascist philosopher at work here. The book is called, “The Road to Unfreedom” by Timothy Snyder. Here is one of the author’s essays:  http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/16/ivan-ilyin-putins-philosopher-of-russian-fascism/

Ok, I have to speak out on this one. I have had many years where I worked on Human Rights issues and did what I could to help and assist those that were struggling with what was right. My worst experience, abroad, was during the Bosnia War, when a totally fascist Serbian Government was committing genocide against the Bosnians. Several times it looked as if the Serbs would win, and that the Bosnians would be "Palastinianised". Over 300,000 were killed, and a million turned into refugees. It looked hopeless. I had discussions with shocked Bosnian Government officials about the massacre going on right in front of their eyes. There were also some scandinavian NGO groups, in Human rights. The end result was that we said to the Bosnians, "Listen. Even if it seems hopeless, document it. Keep records. Get international help. List every war criminal you hear about. Every Serbian official that you hear of, every massacre, every camp, etc etc.....One day, it might take years, there might be justice. There might be war crimes court. We were told we were fools. But it actually happend. The International Tribunal and war crimes court did appear. It pursued those who committed such crimes.They were brought to justice. in such times, it is all you can do. The ACLU is stalwart, but facing a massive deconstruction of the American social and political and legal system and norms.

The Trump objective is to "Normalise horror". To degrade official behavior, and to make every day, what is abnormal, and which no country should have to endure. also, some will say that it is wrong to compare events in America with those in Fascist countries.

Actually, most fascist countries had times before they became fascist. It did not happen overnight. They were subjected to exactly the processes that America is now undergoing.

The objective of these processes is to condition and prepare Americans to accept and not resist against what is being done to them. What you are seeing at the borders will spread, like a plague, unless it is stopped. I have seen this, with my own eyes, and unless Americans start organizing and acting, it will happen to them, as well.  I think that in border areas, groups need to be set up, that can track what is going on, and use the freedom of information acts to track the crimes of their own government officials. Remember the Bosnians. One day, there could be a court. It might even be in America. 

I wish to God all enlightened people that are able, would do something. I feel sick inside with all going on under our noses, leading us to this demise.

Thank you Zoron for weighing in.

It would help if more people understood the history of fascism and the many forms it has taken. I’ve been chastised for saying this the trump administration is fascist and that this was not officially fascism. But after reading the history and meaning of fascism,  I realize that term is not just about Mussolini who coined it.  It has had wide meaning about a number of regimes with some common theme that fit the Trump administration. 

I keep in mind that In July 2016 I saw Donald trump in a vision standing on the January 20, 2017 inaugural platform scowling and holding a Roman fasces, the symbol of  fascism.  Then after he was elected I saw him in another vision in December 2017 awaiting the Electoral College vote looking like a baby lion.  

When I read the literature on fascism, I see that Donald Trump ressembles other fascists in his behavior and in the ideology he expresses: (1) His tendency towards the use of rallies to spread his violent doctrines; (2)  violent solutions to getting his way, (3) his nationalism, (4) his authoritarianism, (5) His disregard for the rule of law, and (his) his attempt to destroy the media  (6) His xenophobic beliefs,  (7) his desire to cleanse America of immigrants which is both xenophobic and racist. Notice that it’s okay that his wives are immigrant and his children the product of immigrants because they are white,  though not Northern European.

All he has needed is permission to rule the way he wants to rule and we will be living in a fascist state with all of the brutality of past fascist regimes.

 I am opening up a topic on fascism in this country so people can wake up to what is happening. Madeline Albright has spoken about it in her tour on her new book Fascism: A Warning. 

Jeanne

Albright is regarded in Europe with some horror. She was the originator of the Iraqi sanctions program, before the invasion of Iraq. This cut off nearly all medical supplies to Iraq, and tightly limited food imports,  and resulted in the unnecessary deaths of about half a million children. She is regarded in Europe as a right-wing extremist herself, and people are shocked at her book, which of course makes no mention of her own role in American war crimes, which are well known over here. When she was asked, "Was the death of all those children worth it?" she answered: "Yes, it was.". fake history. There is tape on the internet of her saying it. It shows how things are, when someone like that, can pose as a moderate. Sorry, but I had to out her. She was hated here, in Europe, except by right-wing politicians.

Zoron, I sense as we progress through the tunnel there will be rise in group in the collective. I feel that people will become aware and will rise up against the GOP and the administration. The ACLU will flourish and teach people what is going on and help people engage in marches and peaceful protests. Ultimately, progressives will prevail, as we see the grassroots movements moving quickly.

I want to share the words of a Mr. Clint Smith, who I don't know, but who shows great wisdom on this exact topic. I believe he is affiliated with Crooked Media/Pod Save the People. I would cut and past them here, but his online post is not set up to do that. I encourage everyone to hit the link:  

https://www.facebook.com/WokeFolks/posts/1169253653214982

Thank you for this Laura.   

Former first lady Laura Bush wrote an excellent opinion piece condemning what is going on in the Washington Post tonight.  I was stunned to read some of the vile comments posted in response to the article.  It really does demonstrate exactly what the FB post you linked to says.

What I keep thinking is:  how long until they start pulling the kids of undocumented immigrants who are already living here from schools and playgrounds and putting them in these facilities too, as leverage against their parents?

I am not the only one thinking this way.  I live just a few miles north of the Mexican border.  A few weeks ago, I went to our local post office and was surprised to see a line out the door.  When I asked what was going on, I was told that the post office has been overwhelmed with Hispanic families seeking to get or renew their U.S. passports.  They want to make sure that they can prove the identity of themselves and their children if necessary.  

In our area, there are two border patrol checkpoints a few miles north of the actual border that we have to pass through regularly just going about our  day to day business.  In the past, the border patrol has pretty much just glanced in the car, and maybe had their drug dogs sniff the outside of our car for drugs, and waived us through.   We'd gotten used to just breezing through these checkpoints over the last 20 years.

In the last month, the agents have started  telling us to roll down our windows and asking us to "state your country of citizenship" and then asking us both what city and state were were born in, which we have never been  before in 20+ years of going through these border patrol checkpoints.   (Note: both my husband and I are of Irish-German descent, so we clearly do not look like Latin American immigrants. ).

Because of this change and all of the other insanity going on, my husband and I are thinking about starting to carry our own U.S. passports in our cars so that we have proof that we are citizens if we need it.  And, again,  we are not even crossing the border -- this is inside the U.S.

I know this may sound paranoid, but these days, it is hard to know what is coming next.   

Meanwhile, a facility to house these poor children is operating less than a mile from my daughter's house.  We have been discussing the possibility of protesting in front of the facility.  We are also looking into other ways to possibly help these children, but we aren't sure what we can do (yet).  

(As I write this, I am hoping that no one will write a nasty response to me here!)

Rosieheart, if there were a facility like this near my home, I would be out there protesting. I've been wondering where all the protesters are. Go for it!

I’m thinking protests are one way of putting pressure. And many could join you if you did. Using children as hostages is beyond despicable. Imagine someone kidnapping someone beloved to this poor excuse for a human. 

Rosiheart - I also live a few miles north of the Mexico border (San Ysidro crossing). I am also hoping someone will organize a protest in front of our local detention centers. One thing we can all do for latino neighbors, friends, etc. is to remind them that if they have a green card, they need to get their citizenship if able, and we all should be willing to chip in $$$ for that as well, so they can pay for an immigration lawyer. ICE/CBP is an agency that is completely out of control. It needs to be abolished asap.

Ah, we are neighbors then Laura!   :) I live in East County near the Tecate border crossing.  The two border patrol checkpoints I pass through regularly are Dulzura and Campo.   It's been a surprise to suddenly be getting more pointed questions from BP when we are going through the checkpoints.  (For those who don't live here - these are NOT border crossings, but border patrol checkpoints set up some miles north of the border).

The facility that they are holding children in is in El Cajon.  There are two, one for boys and one for girls.  So far, we've only figured out where the one for boys is located, although they are trying to keep the address quiet.  Ironically, the area that one is in is heavily populated by refugees from Iraq.    I heard on the news this morning that several legislature members will be touring that facility today.   As I said, my daughter and I are looking into whether we can do something to help the children there, or at least make their lives a little happier in some small way.   

In fairness, I have acquaintances who are Border Patrol agents and some are upset about what is happening to the families, but they are afraid to speak out publicly for fear of losing their jobs or facing internal issues.   So, not all Border Patrol agents (and I'm sure not all ICE agents) are horrible people.

Rosieheart, thank you for posting. 

Your description of federal agents stopping cars and asking for ID is an image of a totalitarian dictatorship.

I called my democrat congressional delegation this morning and suggested they up the ante in protesting the situation.

One staff person said, senator Markey agrees this is immoral.”   My response was that using the word “moral” is way too weak a word. The Republicans don’t care about moral. I want to be hearing my Congressman saying “this is an atrocity” and as far as negotiating with Donald Trump as he is asking the Democrats to do, the response on the part of the Democrats should be, “We do not negotiate with terrorists!“

 I also don’t care if there are people in this country who think what Donald Trump is doing is fine. It is an atrocity. Many Germans agreed with Hitler. I’m not listening to them.

If you have the address please post it.