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[Closed] The Unraveling -- Donald Trump  

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(@lawrence)
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10/16/2019 10:49 am  

We're learning more about T's taxes. Its beginning to leak...

We're about to learn a lot more.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-never-before-seen-trump-tax-documents-show-major-inconsistencies/amp?__twitter_impression=true

(Just noticed Jeanne already posted this article too)


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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10/16/2019 11:20 am  

If you go back and re-read George Orwells Animal Farm, its all there to explain the blue collar worker love of Trump.  The book was a satirical fable about Stalin and the rise of totalitarian government but it applies to what is happening in the U.S.  I think of the blue collar worker love of Trump as the horse character. He worked hard all his life, back breaking work, and believed that the pigs were telling him the truth.  Then the day came when he could no  longer work due to age and his leaders loaded him into a truck and carried him off to be killed and turned into soap. He didnt realize it until it was too late.  

This doesn't apply to the police because they are still getting the benefits worked out by their unions.  They make good money and have great benefits.   But I  good working conditions  and benefits should be extended to everyone not just a select few. Anyone who works full time should be able to earn a decent living and receive full medical care.   There are many progressives who will disagree with me. That  is okay. 🙂

 


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(@jessi1978)
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10/16/2019 3:01 pm  
 
Oh Trump and Friends watch out for NY 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a measureWednesday that would allow the state to pursue charges against people who have received a presidential pardon — a law seen as a direct shot at President Donald Trump.

Multiple ex-Trump aides or associates are imprisoned or facing legal scrutiny in New York.

The newly signed law creates a narrow exception in the state's double jeopardy law, which prohibits the prosecution of a person who's been tried for the same crime by the federal government. The change takes effect immediately.
 
No one is above the law and New York will not turn a blind eye to criminality, no matter who seeks to protect them," Cuomo said in a statement. "The closure of this egregious loophole gives prosecutors the ability to stand up against any abuse of power, and helps ensure that no politically motivated, self-serving action is sanctioned under law."

This was introduced because of Trump and company
 
The New York measure was introduced by state Attorney General Letitia James, who began investigating the finances of the president and the Trump Organization earlier this year. That probe came after Cohen told Congress that Trump had inflated the worth of his assets in financial statements to secure bank loans.

James has said the law was necessary because double jeopardy "exists to prevent someone from being charged twice for the same crime, not to allow them to evade justice altogether."

"We have a responsibility to ensure that individuals who commit crimes under New York state law are held accountable for those crimes," James said in a statement Tuesday.

This critical new law closes a gaping loophole that could have allowed any president to abuse the presidential pardon power by unfairly granting a pardon to a family member or close associate and possibly allow that individual to evade justice altogether. No one is above the law, and this commonsense measure will provide a reasonable and necessary check on presidential power today and for all presidents to come."

With the President all but pledging to corruptly abuse his pardon power to allow friends and associates off the hook, it is crucial that we have closed the Double Jeopardy loophole and preserved the rule of law in New York," Democratic state Sen. Todd Kaminsky, who sponsored the legislation, said in a statement.

 

The new exception allows state prosecutors to pursue investigations into any pardoned individual who served in a president's administration, worked directly or indirectly to advance a presidential campaign or transition, or worked at a nonprofit or business controlled by a president, and whose alleged criminal activity took place in New York. The law also allows for investigations to be opened or continued into anyone who was pardoned for the president's benefit.

 

Oh poor Guiliani your friend can’t help you 😂😂

The measure was proposed after reports that Trump was weighing a pardon for his former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, who's serving a 7½-year prison term on federal bank fraud, tax evasion and conspiracy charges stemming from former special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

 

 
 
 

 


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(@laura-f)
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10/16/2019 6:21 pm  

@Jessi1978

I don't think the NYS law will stand the test of time. Yeah, it's great now, but what if the tables were turned? What if this was about a progressive president pardoning someone who had been targeted by an opposing party? (See: All Things Clinton). It may seem like a "gaping loophole" right now, but in future it could easily turn into a noose.  It also creates another loophole in that all an accused would have to do is change state of residency, because Federal Law supersedes all state laws, and I'm pretty sure Federal Law says the President can pardon anyone for any reason at any time.


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(@jessi1978)
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10/16/2019 7:13 pm  

@laura-f

Yes I know that federal law supersedes state. But it is funny how that law is in effect now because of Trump and company. Not for any other reason. 

 

 


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(@laura-f)
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10/16/2019 7:18 pm  

@jessi1978 - which is probably why a fed court will strike it down.


(@mas1581)
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10/16/2019 9:35 pm  

The trick with pardons is that they only cover federal crimes. The pardoned person can still be indicted, tried, and punished for violating any state law, even those they were pardoned for on a federal level


(@jessi1978)
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10/16/2019 10:34 pm  

I just read about the Supreme Court had already ruled this issue one June 2019

The Supreme Court upholds the double jeopardy rule that allows states and the federal government to prosecute for the same crime. The ruling could blunt President Trump's pardon powers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/17/scotus-allows-states-and-federal-government-to-prosecute-a-person-for-the-same-crime.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/supreme-court-upholds-both-federal-and-state-prosecution-for-same-act-11560789570

WASHINGTON—Resoundingly reaffirming its view of double jeopardy, the Supreme Court ruled on Monday that federal and state governments each can prosecute a defendant for the identical conduct despite the Constitution’s bar against trying someone twice for the same crime.

So I guess it can be done??


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 lynn
(@lynnventura)
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10/17/2019 8:28 am  

@jessi1978

Yes it can. This is why the Manhattan District atty (Cy Vance) and the NY State atty (Tish James) are all over trump. Whatever happens on a federal level, including him pardoning himself, he can't escape state accountability. I've heard Vance is kind of sketchy, and he's let the trump kids skate before, but James is not to be messed with. Gotta love NY!!


(@yogagirl)
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10/17/2019 10:50 am  

Morning ya'll.  Just a few quick points that I'm sure probably could go on other threads but.....

I have thought all along "have faith in Pelosi, have faith in Pelosi, she knows what she is doing"  After yesterday WOW she is tough.  That picture was worth a thousand words.  Powerful women, powerful message.  

RIP Mr Cummings you were a true American and dedicated to our country.  You will not be forgotten.

 

?  Did anyone else by chance see the pubic service announcement during the debate Tuesday?  The one with Ron Reagan Jr for a movement (sorry I can't remember the name) to separate state and church?  When he said I am a life long atheist I almost fell out of my chair!  I bet that burned a lot of evengelical cookies!

Nancy is right the dumpster had a meltdown!  He looks so sick in that picture.  His orange spray on is beginnig to look really pale.  He also looks really bloated.  Poor thing.


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(@suspira44)
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10/17/2019 4:33 pm  

I'm no expert. The reason no one thought this law would hold up was just as someone said here, it was only a law because of Trump. But apparently it has held up.

One thing I heard, and I'm not sure if this is the reason the law went through -- people have asked, why can't anything be done about Trump not turning over his taxes, hiring all these relatives, not getting security clearance yada yada yada - the answer is simple. No president had ever done anything like that before - so there's no remedy. The pundit added that a lot of new laws were going to have to be passed. I'm not saying this is one but it might be the reason it held up - he has to be stopped. And I blame this runaway train on all of them for just letting him do what he wants, including private meetings with Putin.


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(@laura-f)
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10/17/2019 5:12 pm  

@Yogagirl - I think Ron Jr. is spokesman for Americans United for Separation of Church & State.

You can find them HERE 

They do good work.


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 lynn
(@lynnventura)
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10/17/2019 5:16 pm  

@suspira44

So much of our system of gov't is reliant in norms and basic decency. Trump has none, and absolutely no shame and no concern for our quaint little norms. Whenever he's finally out of office, in addition to trying to repair everything he's smashed, lawmakers will have to codify so many of the norms to prevent any future president from doing the same. 

Btw, today has been bonkers. Just when you keep thinking he's on borrowed time he creates more havoc. I hope this ends soon. 


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(@jessi1978)
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10/17/2019 6:25 pm  

@suspira44

Apparently NY has a law on the books saying you could not be prosecuted if you get a presidential pardon. That was the loophole they closed. 

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced he signed legislation (S.4572/A.6653) to close New York's double jeopardy legal loophole that protects individuals who are pardoned by a President from being prosecuted at the state level for the same offense. This key reform, which was an Attorney General's program bill, gives New York prosecutors discretion to pursue prosecution of criminal acts where they have jurisdiction.

Think about it if Trump resigns or is voted out and comes back to NY and let’s say another president or Pence pardons him then he gets away with a lot of crimes in NY. This way he gets prosecuted no matter what.  You know he has done many of his many crimes here. 

 


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(@rosieheart)
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10/17/2019 9:05 pm  

It was just announced that Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) will take over as acting chairperson of the House Oversight Committee after Elijah Cummings untimely death.    Normally, there would be a vote on the replacement, but Committee members say that will happen "later" which I assume means after the impeachment inquiry and vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/us/politics/cummings-death-oversight-committee.html

When I heard this my first thought was of the many predictions here over the last two years that female energy would rise and help hasten Trump's downfall.  

Also, I heard and read several news reports today saying that right before he died, Cummings put together a report on his personal impressions and notes of the testimonies taken so far in the impeachment inquiry and made sure it was passed along to all of his committee members.  He also arranged for further action on several ICE cases before the committee before he passed in hospice.  What an amazing dedicated public servant we have lost.


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(@yogagirl)
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10/18/2019 9:54 am  

OMG I know ya'll read the letter dump sent the Turkish preident.  I am no letter writer (as you can tell by my awful spelling) but geez louise a third grader could have done better!  Plus I know noone was fooled by this "agreement" on a pause for five days.  Turkey told Pence what they will do and Pence just nodded his head yes master.  What a total disgrace.  Another Rep congressperson has come out this AM and condemned dump an his crew for their handling of the situation.  

After Mulaneys(?) screw up and attempted walk back. And dumps assine remarks in Texas last nite, it looks like another clown will be kicked out of a clown car which is fast loosing it's wheels.  The crowd last nite in Dallas was smaller than expected. Too Bad. 


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(@yogagirl)
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10/18/2019 9:56 am  

Oh and thank you Laura F for the link that is interesting and what the constitutional framers wanted.

 

Oh well time to start another day in the CIRCUS.


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(@bluebelle)
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10/18/2019 1:05 pm  

@yogagirl

Oh, sometimes I just think "spelling be damned."  What shines through your posts time and again is your intelligence and passion.  You definitely know how to think and reason. 🙂 I appreciate hearing from your democratic voice in Kentucky.


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(@yogagirl)
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10/18/2019 1:55 pm  

Ahhh thanks @BlueBelle.  I don’t mind telling you this Democrat in Ky is a little nervous about the Governors election coming up next month.  Our gov is a jerk and he is a shyster along the likes of Rand Paul.  It’s funny I really can’t say I am nervous about MoscowMitch, I truly think he is on his way out.  But Bevins is another can of beans.  Send some light and good will to “my ole Kentucky home” please.


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(@rosieheart)
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10/18/2019 4:51 pm  

Republican Congressman Francis Rooney (FL) spoke out publicly today to say that he believes that the impeachment inquiry is warranted and necessary.  

John Kasich, former Republican governor of Ohio, also said publicly today that he believes Trump should be impeached.

Republican Romney also gave a very impassioned speech about Trump today, calling for public hearings in the Senate regarding Trump's conversations with Turkey's Erdogan.

All just tiny cracks, but cracks none the less.

As I've mentioned previously, ever since Baba mentioned hearing the song "Blow the Man" down in a prediction, I've been waking up with the song on my mind and humming it subconsciously throughout the day.

This morning, however, I woke with these lyrics from a different song running around - LOUDLY - my head:

 
Well, you may throw your rock and hide your hand
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's down in the dark will be brought to the light
You can run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later God'll cut you down
Sooner or later God'll cut you down
 
They're from Johnny Carson's God's Gonna Cut You Down.  Haven't thought of that song in ages.  But now it is all I can think of -- here it is on YouTube:
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc


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