Situation unraveling for Trump  

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(@lovendures)
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08/14/2019 11:46 pm  

 

We saw this coming. And I really really want to celebrate when Cheetolini is gone. But I'm still troubled because I fear he may be a lot easier to beat in 2020 than whoever the GOP puts up in his place. 

 

This has been my fear now for some time.  


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(@yogagirl)
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08/15/2019 11:04 am  

The way I see it if someone else runs they are going to have a hard time not just because of the Dems.  The Repub party or what's left of it are split.  When you look at the younger Rumpers in Congress they are die hard drink the Koolaid members of the WNFP.  For them to go back and say they really didn't buy into the retoric they will look like hypocrits.  To continue the hatetalk won't sit well with the Rep powers thatbe.  The older Reps who have "converted", yes I'm talking to you MoscowMitch and LeonengradLyndsey are stuck betweena rock and ahard place.  They just look like plan old FOOLS.  It is going to take a masterful PR campaign to run someon other than MOron and win.  Just my opinion.  COuld be wrong.


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(@sagetarotpisces)
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08/15/2019 11:41 am  

@yogagirl

I agree. If trump goes down, i dont see how the gop would pick up the pieces in time for 2020, that would have to be extremely impressive and almost impossible in my mind. With the kind of scandals were seeing here (worse than watergate) i highly doubt they’d get that kind of support they need from the swing voters/independents to get anyone even remotely close to the gop in there, trump leaving means a level of disgrace on them in voters minds.

I do worry about the trump base though. even if trump goes, they’ll still be there, at least a large chunk of them. Not all republicans, but a huge part of them... the trump rally goers and qanon folks. Crazy as ever and unrelenting. Now, who they’ll vote for- whether they decline to vote in protest or go for a different GOPer, i do not know forsure. My gut is that they would see any GOP opposition as betrayal and the enemy, unless trump somehow endorses someone new. They will still be loyal to him no matter where he is- dead or alive, jail or home. 

 

I actually worry quite a bit about these people. Particularly Qanon followers, i feel some of them are actually quite vulnerable and have been manipulated into paranoia and delusion. you dont just “snap out of” that. You dont. A lot of these people are likely mentally ill- and i mean that.  A lot of people will need help when this is all said and done. I really do wonder and worry about 50% of the country who will still exist even when trump is gone.... fox news, alex jones, jim jordan will still be present. If not the people, the movement itself. How will they vote once trump is no longer?


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(@triciact)
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08/15/2019 3:24 pm  

Hi all, I've said for a while I don't see Trump running because he goes down. The thought of the GOP winning with a surprise candidate though doesn't seem realistic, but I also see the race being tighter and now that all makes sense to me. I think if it were Trump the race would not be tight at all, a slam dunk for any dem.  I think we need to somehow influence the DNC in having a backup plan, because I think if we want a winning ticket it can't just be the one that can beat Trump, but rather one that offers the country solutions, especially when we're in a recession, which I think is on it's way.

I've always felt Elizabeth Warren and Mayor Pete (as VP) would be a winning ticket but that's not my "feeling" more my logic.  Right now Kamala is not exciting me as she did in the beginning.  I'm trying to look at the candidates both against Trump and without Trump and round out which ones would win in either situation.  I also don't get a good feeling about Tulsi Gabbard, I feel she's a GOP plant.  Anyone else want to weigh in on that?


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(@polarberry)
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08/15/2019 4:59 pm  

TriciaCT,

Very bad feeling about Gabbard.  I think she works for Russia. Seriously.


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(@sagetarotpisces)
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08/15/2019 5:22 pm  

@triciact

I can also second the gabbard feeling. From the moment i heard her speak i had a terrible gut feeling about her. 

A few weeks ago a lot has come out about her- having unauthorized meetings with assad, support for assad and refusing to call him a war criminal, and a lot of weird backing from the kremlin & putin. Something fishy is going on there and i do not trust her. 


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 lynn
(@lynnventura)
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08/15/2019 7:49 pm  

@sagetarotpisces

Gabbard grew up in a cult. Her demeanor is of someone who's still in one. Creepy.


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(@sagetarotpisces)
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08/15/2019 8:02 pm  

@lynnventura

Ooooo! I just got shivers. Reading that hit me weird. That is way too fitting. I can feel it in her mannerisms and the way she speaks. There is something disconnected that makes my internal antenna send all kinds of signals. Something about the empathy or lack there of in the way she communicates... cant place it 

 

*wanted to add*- it always makes me feel sad to disparage another female candidate, something about that causes a bit of guilt for me. However, this is one of those feelings I just can’t shake. I truly hope my gut is wrong here, though. 


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(@vestralux)
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08/15/2019 8:58 pm  

I have no idea whether or not Gabbard is compromised, but I defer to Occam's razor. Democrats aren't a monolith; they don't all believe in or agree about the same things. And when one of their members seems to defy type, however strongly, that doesn't mean a conspiracy is afoot.

Some of Gabbard's more unpalatable stances can be explained by her military career history, combined with her rather unique personal background. She's the multicultural child of multireligious parents, whose father was an outspoken anti-LGBT/anti-abortion rights political figure. And she was subjected not only to ardent Hindu nationalist sentiments (i.e., anti-Muslim), but also to some kind of cult-type situation.

Seems pretty reasonable that this sort of history could make any person ...unconventional.

She's probably a fine enough person, but I wouldn't vote for her because she isn't consistently progressive in areas that matter to me.

Of course, maybe someone got to her—I have no idea. But I say this next thing with love—and because I need to remind myself of it a LOT lately: We're probably not doing ourselves any favors by assuming everything that doesn't jive is a Russian conspiracy. Putin wants us to believe that; he wants us so destabilized that we no longer trust one another or our leaders or the facts or just plain good sense. Yes, there are plenty of legitimate conspiracies afoot, but when we're too open to the idea, we become prime targets for just the sort of brainwashing and propaganda meddling that Putin & Co. are aiming at us. Just have a look at the Rush Limbaugh/Alex Jones set. 

 

Edited to add: Consider how many people who disagreed with Obama's politics enough to swallow the birther lie, or more absurdly, the "Obama is a reptilian alien" agenda meme.  


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(@polarberry)
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08/15/2019 11:01 pm  

On NBC news you can search for an article entitled, "Russia's propaganda machine discovers 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard."  They are actively promoting her.

Or just Google Tulsi Gabbard and Russia.  Lots of info.  Very alarming.

I don't like her.

 


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(@polarberry)
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08/16/2019 7:48 pm  

VestraLux,

I agree that right-wingers would love nothing better than to portray all Democrats as trying to recreate McCarthy-like hysteria, accusing everyone who disagrees with their agenda. Twitler and some of his administration have already started employing that tactic.

  Complicating it is that many GOP'ers (and perhaps some Dems) actually are in bed with the Russians, financially and otherwise.  We know Moscow Mitch is.  We know Russia interfered in the election, with Twitler's personal stamp of approval. We know they plan to continue their meddling in the form of division, misinformation,  social media, hacking, ect. 

All I'm saying is that we are living in times where we better make d*mned sure we know who we're voting for.  Any US Congressman or woman who retweets RT, gets glowing praise from Putin and Moscow, and is as pro-Assad as she appears to be is highly suspect.

Whether or not Khrushchev said they would destroy us from within, it appears to be an effective strategy.  Trojan horse.

 


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 PamP
(@pamp)
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08/16/2019 9:56 pm  

@polarberry

I don't like Gabbard, or trust her. She's this election's Jill Stein. 


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 KB
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08/17/2019 1:38 pm  

The Mooch (a/k/a Anthony Scaramucci) says trump will leave office by March 2020 when the evidence is irrefutable that he can't possibily be re-elected and when the tide has turned on him.  Recall that Scaramucci was trump's former short-lived director of communications who's recently defected to the A-team by joining the never trumpers.  Here's hoping Scaramucci has some insider info.  A psychic on another site says team trump is somehow manipulating and inflating statistics about his supporters and that the people who adore him are closer to 28% of the population rather than 38%.  We'll see.  


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(@jessi1978)
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08/17/2019 3:03 pm  

@kb Trump has to know that he is not that popular but then again he lies to himself so much that he believes his own lies. I wonder if it’s like some weird positive affirmation. If you heard about (I hate seeing him and or hearing him, I rather read it) NH rally were he told people even if you don’t like me vote for me or you 401k and etc etc will go down the tube.

‘Love Me Or Hate Me, You Have To Vote For Me’: Trump Tells Voters They Have ‘No Choice’

I hate him and yes I have a choice between voting for this buffoon or walking on a bed of rusty nails. I take my chance and remove my shoes and walk on those nails before I ever vote for him.


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(@unk-p)
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08/17/2019 3:30 pm  

Over 400,000 people have already signed the petition to rename the section of 5th Ave. that Drumph Tower sits on.  The new name would be President Barack H. Obama Ave.  (Ha!).    Here is link to the petition, if anybody would like to sign it.  (You do not need to be a NYC resident)     https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/rename-fifth-avenue-in?source=petitionshomepage


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(@vestralux)
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08/17/2019 5:10 pm  

@polarberry, you are ABSOLUTELY right. And yes, we are living in strange times and should make d*mned certain we know who we're voting for. 

Which is why I believe it's equally valuable to integrate logic and intuition, and when in doubt, to rely on the former rather than risk moving toward extremes (certainly, I fail at this at times). It doesn't take a genius—stable or otherwise—to see that, in a relatively short span (maybe more than 15 years, maybe less) an American president has been radicalized. And while that's certainly a historical near-anomaly, it isn't a contemporary social one; so many, many Americans have, as well. On both sides. When we're living in these conditions, I believe it's easier for otherwise sane people to begin to resonate toward extremes. 

Like I said, I don't know the truth about Gabbard one way or another, but your points are valid. I just want to encourage all of us to keep the larger conditions of our present social field in mind as we tap into whatever we're feeling and sensing.

And FWIW, in the run-up to 2016, while The Putin Machine was churning out mass online propaganda in favor of Trump, RT and the Cambridge Analytica troll farms were also heavily promoting Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders. That fact alone doesn't make those candidates Russian plants. It was done strategically in an attempt to rob Clinton of electoral votes. And whatever her own campaign errors were, it worked.

I've already said that, until or unless there's harder evidence, the psychology of Gabbard's politics can more reasonably explained by her personal history. Beyond that, it also seems reasonable (to me) that someone like Gabbard makes a worthwhile "useful idiot" for Russia. In other words, she conveniently supports some of the causes Putin favors, maybe without deeper understanding of the consequences—or of Putin's motives. (As we've all learned, no evidence of conspiracy is required for someone to nevertheless become Putin's golden egg of useful idiots.)

 


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(@laura-f)
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08/17/2019 6:32 pm  

@Vestralux

Valid points, but I DO believe Jill Stein was a stooge for the Russians. Remember she collected millions of dollars after the '16 election? Supposedly to investigate the results and initiate lawsuits? Yes? Well, what happened to that money? She pocketed it and walked away from public life, mission accomplished, never has to work for a living again.

As for Bernie, he made a fatal mistake in not accepting the VP slot on he Dem ticket. The Russians saw an opportunity because he was a third candidate. EVERY TIME a Dem/Liberal has run as a third candidate, the presidency goes to the conservative/ultra-right wing candidate. Here's hoping no one pulls that crap again (I'm looking at you, Marianne Williamson).


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(@vestralux)
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08/17/2019 7:25 pm  

@laura-f

I was sick about Stein—not that I wanted to see a third party progressive candidate in the race in the first place (for the very reason you stated). I'm not sure whether by "stooge," you mean "useful idiot" or Russian "asset." However f'd up either is, there's still a critical difference. Not recognizing the nuance is just the sort of vulnerability Putin has so successfully exploited.

Again, even with the story as we know it (regarding Gabbard or Stein or anyone else), there are ample reasons not to vote for these candidates based strictly on their merits, no conspiracy necessary. As far as my vote was concerned, Gabbard eliminated herself before she entered the race due to her LGBTQ position history alone.

I feel it's important for all of us to consider—especially in the current environment—that making logical leaps in the direction of conspiracy territory has become all too commonplace (again, I've made plenty of them on this very site myself and likely will again). My prayer is that progressive minded people everywhere will see the utility in weighing more clear and evident factors into the mix. Failing to do so further fractures our society, and fragmentation and division are just the sort of slippery slope a civilization rides toward oblivion. 

I genuinely admire and respect the minds of everyone in this discussion, and I value all of your insights—intuitive and otherwise. I'm grateful we're discussing this!  

 

Re: the thread topic, has anyone else noticed a sudden increase in public claims that Trump has dementia (including from Republicans)? Wondering whether there may be movement to 25th Amendment the guy...


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 lynn
(@lynnventura)
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08/17/2019 7:25 pm  

I always wondered why the media don't look into Jill Stein more. I don't think Bernie was willingly accepting Russian help in 2016, but I think Jill Stein was totally into it. And now, not a peep out of her. Always found that so suspicious. I certainly hope no other "liberal" allows him/herself to be used as a third party candidate to derail the democrats in 2020.


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(@lovendures)
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08/17/2019 7:45 pm  

@VesturaLux,

Yes, I have noticed a large uptick of people of suggesting  he has dementia or is at least mentally unstable.

I have also noticed that more and more seem to be calling him out.  Even Flake just said he would vote for a Dem over Trump (though I believe that was if nobody else ran).  I think that perhaps this break with Trump is orchestrated to some degree.  These same people will announced backing a different Rep or Independent Candidate.  Trump will be gone but the question remains who will the Dems truly end up running against?  Will people follow those who start to disassociate themselves from Trump now or will they call those people  out for supporting him for so long?


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