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(@rowsella)
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I wonder if anyone has any visions or read on Joe Biden.  Lucy Flores recently came out with an article in New York Magazine The Cut about an experience with him 5 years ago when he came to Nevada to help her campaign for an election. She claimed he made her feel uncomfortable when he squeezed her shoulders and kissed her head. She then made some other charges/detractions about him. In an interview on CNN she admitted her article was politically motivated because she felt that this was a topic that has not been brought up. At this point, he has not announced his candidacy but has been polling higher than all the candidates, with Bernie Sanders as a close second (and clearly the person who would most benefit from this political hit). Today another woman came forward with a complaint of an "Eskimo kiss" that happened (I think it was 10 or maybe 8 years ago). He rubbed noses with her without her permission. I feel like this is the kind of thing that Trump voters were sick and tired of and frankly, I am too. People feel he is being "Frankened." It makes me sad that no other candidate speaks up for him. This is not a true #metoo moment, it cheapens the testimony of true victims. Especially as it is also opportunistic. If women are the strong confident individuals we claim to be, we can tell effusive affectionate people to back down and give us our space when they invade it the first time without trying them in the public sphere multiple years later. I do feel bad for Joe.


   
(@hererightnow)
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Is he a politician? I saw some footage on the news here and to be honest it looked like creepy behaviour.  


   
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 lynn
(@lynn)
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I like Joe Biden, even if I think maybe his time has passed. I don't think what he's done is harassment although it's not really appropriate. I remember Obama making comments during his first term about odd things Biden would say. He just kind of steps in it every so often. That said, I have a very dense feeling about where all of this is coming from. It's a set up by people who want to take him down. I also get a bad feeling about Bernie Sanders. I think his supporters are behind some of this. Legitimate criticism is one thing, but tearing other dems apart is not how to win elections. Makes me wonder whether the Bernie people will be as disruptive in the next election as they were in the last one. 


   
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(@coyote)
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So here's how Nancy Pelosi has responded to the Biden chatter. In an interview with Politico today, her advice to Biden was to "Just pretend that you have a cold and I have a cold...Join the straight-arm club with me...He's an affectionate person, to children, to senior citizens, but that's just not the way. I don't think it's disqualifying...He has to understand in the world that we're in now that people's space is important to them, and what's more important is how they receive it and not necessarily how you intended it."

I too share Pelosi's thoughts. Biden's actions certainly are not harassment, nor do they disqualify him, but it would do him well to consider how his affections are perceived by both the receiver and the onlooker. And as voters, we have to consider whether we really want a septuagenarian with a tendency to "step in it" to become our nation's most public citizen. So I'm actually glad Amy Lappos and Lucy Flores are talking about their experiences. For better or worse, we live in a videocam age, so we have to talk about the "creepy Uncle Joe" factor.

Lynn, I wouldn't be surprised if some "dirtbag left" supporters of Sanders are trying to tar Joe Biden. But I'm more concerned about rightwing provocateurs attacking Democratic candidates because of perceived misbehavior. After years of Democrats decrying T's boorishness, they're looking for the first chance to cry "hypocrisy!" We've seen that process unfold in Virginia state politics. 

 

 


   
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(@deetoo)
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I've always liked Joe Biden.  I sense that Biden is, by nature, a touchy-feely kind of guy.  I also think he comes from the old school, good-old-boy politics of glad-handing.   He's operated this way for decades, and I think that over the years, it has made some women uncomfortable.  But  because he is powerful and has a larger-than-life presence, I imagine that many of these women swallowed their discomfort and chose not to speak up, telling themselves it's no big deal,  just Joe being Joe.   I don't know where Biden is with the #Metoo movement,  but I'm thinking that up until now, maybe he's been a little clueless.   I have read from various sources that Biden is someone who can and has learned from his mistakes.  This may be an educational moment for him.   But I do think his days with the uninvited bear hugs are over.

I also agree that there is political motivation behind this, but I have no sense from where.

This is such a fragile time, insofar as women are bravely speaking out and some men might be perplexed or even frightened by the #Metoo movement.   We're all experiencing growing pains.  We're all feeling our way, and are bound to make mistakes.  I remember years ago, I worked with a guy who was kind, affable and affectionate by nature.  Energetically I never felt any discomfort when he would put his arm around my shoulder, and in fact, I often would respond in kind.  But I worked with a woman who lodged a complaint against him with human resources.  He was embarrassed and totally baffled, since she never told him of her discomfort.   After the dust settled, I noticed him stiffen and become very quiet whenever she was in the same room with him.  I found it all very sad.

And yet, there were times in my own life when my entire body would tighten if a particular male acquaintance or co-worker came into the room, or even worse,  stood too close to me.   It was a gut thing.  And there have been times when  someone crossed the line, but I didn't want to make a scene.  About 30+ years ago, I was going to a business meeting and shared a taxi with a stranger, a powerful head of a government agency.  He asked about my work, where I was going, etc. and we exchanged business cards.  I sensed that he also had ulterior motives, but I figured I could work around that and believed he would be a good business contact.  As I was leaving the taxi, he patted me on my thigh and said "I'll be in touch."  At that moment I wanted to say, "what the hell do you think you're doing?", but I didn't want to make a scene in front of the taxi driver.   I'm embarrassed even admitting that.  To this day I'm sorry that I didn't smack him.   But back in those days, that's what many women did to navigate through life (except, maybe, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Katherine Hepburn!).  

By the way -- he did end up calling me, and after I was unsuccessful in avoiding his calls, I told him that I wasn't really interested in meeting for lunch, since he wasn't really interested in doing business.   

 


   
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(@stardancer)
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My mom told me many, many years ago, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” It had a big impact on me. I think it is insensitive to assume what another person needs emotionally. It can cause others great harm. 

Many people allow their boundaries to be violated for a variety of reasons. I don’t doubt that Joe Biden has a good heart. I am very uncomfortable with his behavior. It gives me the creeps. I’m shocked this issue hasn’t come up a lot sooner.  

 

 

 


   
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(@deetoo)
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Stardancer,

Your mother was very wise!


   
(@laura-f)
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I believe Joe Biden is a good person. I don't think he should run in 2020.His apologies for his role in the Anita Hill/Thomas hearings are too little too late.

I do however give him a fair amount of credit for NOT issuing a b.s. non-apology apology. He did say "I am willing to listen respectfully." That's huge. No other male in a position of power has said that so far. He earned some respect from me for that.

In my opinion, the Franken situation was a total frame job. What Biden has done over the years is a bit worse IMHO, and what I don't understand is why Nancy Pelosi didn't take him aside years ago to clue him in, since they were peers.

If Biden drops out, I'm not going to shed a tear over it. He's had his time. In fact, I believe NO ONE over the age of 70 should be running for president, and anyone over the age of 60 should have a full neuropsychological eval in addition to a physical one (from real doctors, it needs to be said). I've had quite enough of deranged old men running this country into the ground, thank you very much.

As for the intuitive side of things, all I get when I reflect on "Uncle Joe" is just a kind of old timey cluelessness despite his intelligence. I also get that because he has lost so many loved ones in his lifetime, that he craves human connection on a physical (but not necessarily sexual) level. I keep seeing him sitting alone, sad but trying to focus on tasks at hand to distract himself. I think he would benefit greatly from hug therapy (not kidding). Because he holds so much power, he can't lower his pride to ask, so he just "goes for it". I get NO sense of malicious intent, manipulation or sociopathy.

I wish we could start a campaign to have anyone willing to line up to give him hugs, I think it would heal him greatly.


   
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(@rowsella)
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My father was a bear hugger. He was very affectionate with us as children, giving many hugs and kisses etc. I don't think my grandparents were as effusive and he was the eldest, with four brothers behind him so my grandmother was very busy with babies when she was not working. He had a difficult personality so I think his family almost tiptoed about him. Maybe his expressions of affection to us were what he felt a large lack of in his own life. 

I know of many people in my life who are physically affectionate and I am also to a certain extent, particularly at work because I am a nurse... that is part of the job. Today I held a woman's hand until side effects of a medication given during a test wore off. I barely knew her name but she needed someone to anchor her. I have hugged people, rubbed their backs, squeezed their shoulders, hands, given kisses on the cheeks of elderly... most people as the get older are touched less and less, particularly affectionate/gestures of support and I think as a society, to outlaw spontaneous affection is a grave mistake.
I know that there are people with PTSD etc. that have issues with this but I would encourage cognitive behavioral treatment to overcome such high levels of anxiety associated with benign touch. Also, if it is something that distressing, just say something about it. 

In the 1990s I worked in a law office and my boss, the partner of the firm had a habit of paternally rubbing my back/shoulder and at one point, I think because he came back after a liquid lunch and the smell of alcohol really bothered me (my father was also an alcoholic), I asked him not to do that anymore, that it made me feel uncomfortable. It was very awkward. I knew he meant nothing by it sexually, (he was being paternal) but he apologized and never did it again and did not fire me or give me any problem about it. So I understand about power differences and really, to be respected, you must also be respectful and give the other person the benefit of the doubt - and expect they will respond as a thoughtful considerate human.

So, this is one reason why I feel Lucy has introduced a very malignant smear in this campaign. She had no respect for Vice President Biden, no courtesy to tell him not to touch her (although I saw in at least two pictures of the event that she was casually touching him as well) and instead of being grateful for his efforts in helping her in her campaign, she saved this scrap of social awkwardness, nursed this little resentment to attack his character at such a dire time for us in this nation while we have a madman in the White House for some media exposure, and perhaps political advantage to a candidate she supports. It is the same reason I cannot ever really feel too badly for Monica Lewinsky because if her motives were of such a starstruck girl in love, why save the blue dress? I believe in listening to all women, giving them a fair hearing, a sympathetic ear but I am not going to believe them all. In giving all women a hearing, I think we should also be willing to offer benefit of the doubt when it comes to intent to men and give them the opportunity to be innocent until proven guilty as provided by the law of our land. I cannot believe that the people who have stepped forward could not just call him or ask to talk to him about this, face to face-- he has to be one of the most approachable men in politics.


   
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(@deetoo)
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Rowsella,

I wish you had been my nurse during some of my scary medical moments.   You are very caring.  I agree with you that the elderly are touched less and less.  I've witnessed the power of touch when I would visit my mother when she was in a nursing facility with Alzheimer's.  It was a great facility, and the nursing staff and aides were so caring.  You could see the residents light up when their shoulders were rubbed ... or even just the gentle touch of someone's hand on theirs.  

Touch has the power to heal, and it also has the power to cause pain.  I've known people with PTSD, and a number of things can trigger them.  And in general,  I think we have to be cognizant of other people's boundaries, and not assume.  And yet ... I understand what you mean about spontaneous affection.  Last week I went to a local Greek deli for the first time.  The owner, who is 100% Greek, was warm and gregarious.  There appeared to be a number of regulars there for lunch, because he seemed to know everyone's name and greeted them warmly, sometimes physically.  When he brought out my carryout, he thanked me, hugged me, and kissed my cheek.  I was initially surprised but didn't feel offended; it seemed like the most natural thing in the world.   He felt safe to me -- good energy.  Had he not been spontaneous, I would have missed out on the experience. 

I think when there is an imbalance of power, it can get tricky.  That may be why some women hesitate and don't say anything at that moment.  I admire your courage in telling your boss that you felt uncomfortable, and am glad that it turned out well.  I agree that it's important to speak out at the time if you feel your boundaries have been violated.  

This seems so complicated to me.  Something to think more about.


   
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(@stardancer)
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Patients in hospitals, nursing homes and hospice facilities are some of our most vulnerable. Under most circumstances I think it is in the best interest of everyone if the patient is asked first. I would even take it a step further and ask someone who seems distressed, “Could you tell me something you need right now?” or “”What would bring you comfort?” A conversation that would lead to what the person needs. I have softly said to patients who appeared to be hurting, “Would it be ok if I held your hand?” I also questioned if I needed to hold their hand more than they needed to hold mine, because my heart was hurting. It hurts to care for those most vulnerable among us.

Being supported in making choices, choices that may seem mundane to me, can empower a person. It maintains dignity. It can be the difference between a transaction or a transition. If I hug someone who is hurting, it’s  a transaction. If I have a conversation with them around what they feel they need that is a transition into a relational dynamic moving forward. Neither is right or wrong, but in my opinion we are becoming much more transactional and less relational.

I think we tend to project our wants and needs onto others, thinking if it’s what I would want or need, then it’s likely they want and need the same thing. And if they don’t we label the person. 

We live in a very messy world. I think each of us is broken.  We are in this together. Day by day, we will  get through this. The only way out is through.

 


   
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(@stargazer)
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Coyote... I wouldn't be surprised if some 'dirtbag' right supporters were trying to tar Joe Biden. In the warped out time we are living in, nothing should surprise any of us anymore. It certainly is not a time to be naive... remember the old adage "Believe only half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear."

Or is it the other way around? I suppose that works too ? 


   
(@stargazer)
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Should clarify that... speaking politically that is ^^^


   
(@jeanne-mayell)
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I want to be careful here what I write about Biden. The GOP wants us to tear him down since he's the front runner and someone who could appeal to a wider group of Americans.  I'm not going to help them do that. He's basically good, and compared to GOP politicians, he's a saint. 

I feel his intentions were innocent, touchy feely, not sexual, although  naive and I have to wonder that no one in the Democratic leadership hasn't corrected him by now.  Have they tried?  

That said, I don't feel comfortable with Lucy Flores' approach to correcting Biden's touchy feely behavior.  

Perhaps I've missed something about her.  Has she tried to correct Biden's behavior in the past via Pelosi, Biden himself, or some way other than a nuclear article? If she has, please correct me.  

Whatever her motives, acting  like Biden had traumatized her doesn't sit right with me, although I'm conflicted. His behavior was patronizing, I agree-- father daughterly, and inappropriate for a stranger.   That behavior is also disempowering for a women forging ahead in what has been a man's world. He should have known not to touch her or anyone, and I fault him for that.  I agree that she should not have to tolerate such behavior and I understand why the power difference caused her not to say anything at the time.  

I adamantly agree that women have had enough of uninvited touching from men.  It needs to stop once and for all. I hope this article will do that since it comes at such a big price to an effort to beat a true abuser and sexual assaulter of women, Donald Trump.

I am astonished at his nativity in this day and age.  As one of you wrote, where was party leadership, like Pelosi, or Obama, to put a stop to this behavior?  Don't these guys have political consultants who talk to them about risky habits that can bring them down? 

 So many women, myself included, have lived through so much inappropriate touching that we are done with anyone touching us other than our partners and close family and friends. DONE. 

But her article was too harsh, like using a machine gun instead of a slap.  It was designed to vanquish, and there were better ways to stop the touchy feely people other than the way she did. Even though she admitted that his touch was not legally a sexual assault, her references to being traumatized by it makes it seem like it has parity with Moore's and Trump's sexual assaults. 

In our town back in the early 1990's, the town youth officer, also a touchy feely type and much loved  for his kindness to children, kissed a child on the forehead and his mother brought charges against the man.

 The child's family was new to our town and was from another country and some wondered at the time if the cultural differences caused the mother  to overreact. The police department put him on administrative leave while they investigated the case.  The man was overwhelmed by the charges which he felt, regardless of what was decided in the investigation, would brand him and forever surround him with suspicion, and ruin his lifelong work as child whisperer. He was right that it probably would have done that.   Then the unthinkable happened.   He fell into despair and, the father of four children,  killed himself while on Administrative leave.  He was a casualty of a progressive movement to stop child abuse in which, as often happens, the intense desire to vanquish abuse goes through a period of overkill and inadvertently claims innocent lives. 

In spite of being very touchy feely myself , I learned way back in the 1990's not to touch anyone except my own kids and spouse.  I coached youth soccer and once in the mid nineties, I rushed out onto the field and swept a child up in the air in celebration after she had just gotten a goal. This was a child who was athletically challenged so it was a big victory for her.  I put her down, suddenly aware that her mother was watching on the sidelines. Without anyone saying anything to me, I  realized that it was not my place to touch any child except my own and that was the final end of touchy feely gestures for me. 

For a few years, I had a male meditation  teacher at a local college who I observed hugging a  female college student because  he also is a touchy feely type.  I later warned him not to do that.  I said, "I know your intentions are good, but you don't know what any of these girls have been through in their lives, and hence how they will take your hugging them."  He spurned my advice.  

Yes, the Lucy Flores article will help stop all uninvited touching, and that is good.  Her article will protect women.   But I don't like the way she did it. I am suspicious of her motives.   I want integrity in the way we fight for our rights, or else we are perpetuating the dark. 

Lastly, while I'd love any progressive  to win in 2020, Biden would not be my choice.  He's always felt meh to me. I followed the Anita Hill hearings and was dismayed at how he left her to hang out there all alone. He allowed some women to testify in Thomas' his favor and against Anita Hill, branding Hill as a misfit. It was ugly, painful for me because I knew Hill was telling the truth at great cost to her, and I felt the women were lying. But Biden did not  allow several other women ready to testify about Clarence Thomas' sexual abuse against them.  He said  he had run out of time.  So he let a sexual predator and one of the worst Supreme Court Justices ever onto the bench. I realize he's apologized to Hill, but his failure was egregious. 

 


   
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(@stargazer)
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Jeanne, I so agree with everything you wrote here.

And I do recall Biden being affectionate even toward President Obama, who is still his best bud I think. There is something just not right about these women coming forward at this crucial time and profiling him like this... to smear him now that he appears to be a top contender.

I foresee many more of these smear campaigns (and much worse than this has been for Biden) in the days to come drawing closer to Presidential election. We can't expect anything less from the T***p machine, can we?


   
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(@deetoo)
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I want integrity in the way we fight for our rights, or else we are perpetuating the dark. 

I love that.  Thanks, Jeanne.


   
(@michele-b)
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An absolutely well-thought out, well written and right in great analysis.  Kudos for saying it all so succinctly Jeanne!

? to all who have been posting here for the last 3 weeks some really excellent, thoughtful posts and lots of great energya

I super are busy with family right now but am keeping up here and reading everything while still listening to my angels "keep away from politics" and "do what you do best" as I can ?so sending lots of loving energy to all ?


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Michele, thank you.  Love to you.  Thank you for all the strength you bring us.


   
(@michele-b)
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Oh, thank YOU, Jeanne.

Your sweet kindness always lifts me up when my wings are feeling droopy!

Sorry for all the unedited typos everyone! My family howls at my quickly written, unedited notes or texts but hey! They always figure them out, too!

We're all human, make lots of mistakes and laughing is always better than worrying or wishing we'd caught our mistakes at the time!


   
(@michele-b)
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Oh, thank YOU, Jeanne.

Your sweet kindness always lifts me up when my wings are feeling droopy!

Sorry for all the unedited typos everyone! My family howls at my quickly written, unedited notes or texts but hey! They always figure them out, too!

We're all human, make lots of mistakes and laughing is always better than worrying or wishing we'd caught our mistakes at the time!

 


   
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