Implicating the GOP
 
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Implicating the GOP

(@alythari)
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I have questions about the implication of the GOP. What would happen if they are implicated in the investigation? What could be done about them? Has anyone done a reading on this?

I am asking as a Canadian following all the troubles that have been going on down south.

Jeanne suggested posting these questions here so that's what I'll do.

I'm wondering about all the GOP not just the leaders. If it is found that some or all of them have partaken in Russian money or some other illegal activities, can they be removed? Or sent to jail? If it was the entire party accepting money, would they possibly be not only removed from office but the party disbanded? I'm not entirely sure how things work down there and I find this whole fiasco sad and very upsetting.


   
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(@mas1581)
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From my understanding, anyone indicted and convicted could be imprisoned, assuming the corruption isnt so deep that the deciding factors in their indictments arent also compromised. I highly doubt that the party itself is connected, because they would do a better job of a coverup. My guess is because of the ties from Russia to the NRA, and NRA being the major donor to the party, any aide is funneled thru them to protect the party from getting caught. That said, if the party, itself, is indicted as a conspiring entity, it would have to disband as a separate legal organization only. In that case, I assume the party lives on under a new legal establishment-like if a legal corporation is dissolved, the board/primary members often create a new corporation to continue the business but under a slightly different name. 

If anyone has any other insight, please feel free to correct me. This is all hypothetical, as there is absolutely nothing close to precedent on this. 


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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I can't imagine a situation where a party would be implicated in an investigation since the party is not people.  It's an entity.  The party is for most people just an affiliation for voting. You register as a Republican in order to be allowed to vote in the Republican primary elections where they choose the candidate who will represent them against other parties. Then there are officers of the party who are involved in funneling money to campaigns and holding the convention that selects the nominees.  In this country, a whole party would not be implicated, whatever that means.  But individuals who have broken laws would be. Not sure if that answers the question. 

 


   
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(@marley)
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But, but...if corporations are people then political entities must be too, right? And if people commit crimes then they should go to jail, right? Ipso facto, a corporation or entity should go to jail if they commit crimes. Ta da! Dear Lord, this country is so messed up. ? 


   
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(@alythari)
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I can only hope that these people in power get pushed out if they are or have been doing bad things. I would really like to see karma bite some of these people.

I hope the investigations come to satisfactory conclusions for all those who see what is going on but are unable to help or for those who don't want this happening to their country.

Thank you.


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Marley, Thanks for making me smile.  :-) I needed it.  


   
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(@vestralux)
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I have the sense that a number of GOP legislators could be implicated in the investigation, and some may even be indicted and charged—but that so could a few Democrats. I also feel that over the next several years, whatever comes to light as a result of these investigations will catalyze a deep and illuminating quest to uncover the truth about PAC practices, lobbying firms, major donor groups, etc. All the legs of the establishment, as it were—and that Americans may learn that our politicians had sold us out to Russia and China and Saudi Arabia for the sake of their own careers. And of course, for personal remuneration.

Trump said he was going to drain the swamp, right? 

I also feel that the true purpose of Mueller's work could be much more important in the end than just unseating Trump. I believe it could actually change American politics as we know it. There will be so much loss of trust and public faith in the GOP after the fact, and the Democrats will have swung just ever so far enough to the left, that the two party system may dissolve. A functioning third party could emerge out of defectors from both parties. Disheartened former Republicans who will claim they never liked Trump or the direction the party had gone under his leadership, and blue dog Dems may combine.

By cutting the deck, as it were, the playing field might become nominally more level for Libertarians and Green party voters (though some of these might merge as well). Those on the left might decide to become the New American Labor party or the Democratic Socialists, or what have you. And those on the far right could become the American Neo-Nationalists or some such. 


   
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(@mas1581)
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New American Labor Party......that rings a few scary history bells for me. I think you are correct though. The right is now almost all far right and left is getting to be all far left. Hopefully a sane middleground party is born and becomes very relevant. 

As far as Mueller's investigation, I agree as well. The fact that he is allowing Trump to give written responses and not asking about obstruction tells me that this extends further past Trump than anyone ever expected. The findings from this will turn our whole political system on its head-either turning us into a full Oligarchy or much closer to a true Democracy than we ever have been. Paul Manafort is key. He needs extensive protection from Putin and to get that, he had to sing like a canary. He has been around for nearly 40 years and knows most all of the happenings during that time. If he is fully honest with Mueller's team, and the report goes public, he will make John Dean look like a nobody. 


   
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(@vestralux)
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MAS, when I was writing "New American Labor Party" I was going off the cuff and wasn't thinking of any former labor party. Probably should have! I was purely thinking along the lines of Mother Jones (i.e., Mary Harris Jones, not the magazine) and other labor organizers from the turn of the last century. Something both liberal and populist. 

I agree that Manafort is sitting on a motherload, but Weisselberg is going to bring down Trump Tower. Cohen. McGahn. Roger Stone! This story is too crazy to be a novel.

It's possible that Mueller isn't asking about obstruction for other reasons, too. One, he's conservative of temperament (also politically, but that's not important in this example) and knows there would be little political will in Congress to support the obstruction line of questioning, and likely a lot of resistance from the White House, which could make his team's work harder. Because he appears to have ample evidence against Trump in multiple directions, he can afford to be strategic.

Two, because of his conservative principles (i.e., traditional values), which I believe are noble in a developed individual, he may be trying hard to spare the Office of the Presidency further degradation in the eyes of the nation and the world. I believe Mueller is a man who believes absolutely in the rule of law, so someone like Donald Trump must be the lowest sort of man to him. What a terrible position he must be in.

 


   
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