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House of Trump, House of Putin

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(@michele-b)
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On August 16, 2018, a new book published by Transworld is being released suggesting that Donald Trump was "successfully targeted" by Russian operatives affiliated with the Russian Mafia over a number of decades in order to implant a Russian asset in the White House."

The book is titled "House of Trump, House of Putin: The Untold Story of Donald Trump and the Russian Mafia" and was written by Craig Unger, American writer and journalist.

Unger's new book is billed as "a chilling story" that confirms American paranoias about Russian malevolence and as "the first comprehensive investigation into the decades-long relationship among Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and the Russian Mafia that ultimately helped win Trump the White House

Maria D. White, you mentioned  several times in two different threads that you thought something was going to happen in the beginning of August that was going to alter Donald Trump's presidency.

Any feelings on this now, anyone?

https://www.amazon.com/House-Trump-Putin-Untold-Russian/dp/152474350X

 


   
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(@jholmes)
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I'm interested to see what the others say about this. I don't have any feelings, not being very psychic myself, but what astounds me is that there have been several great and best-selling books and also TV shows showing Trumps mobs ties and Russian ties, etc, and yet somehow they don't seem to make any difference. I hope this one does.


   
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(@runestoneone)
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#MAGAts and Congress are not going to be moved by any collection of facts--they're all in too deep. What's going to cause movement is indictments. And they are starting to become thick upon the ground. When congress critter after congress critter is hauled away in irons, things will change. 


   
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(@maria-d-white)
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Like Runestone said, indictments are going to be coming thick and fast now. The investigation part is over. Mueller has all the information he needs. Now he's going through a legal process, and it's going to go on for two or three months, because he has to go tidbit by tidbit. Since Trump changes what he says constantly, Mueller has to take one thing at a time, and get the Trump team to produce a defense with their version of facts, and then prove that the Trump version is a lie. He'll go through this several times, so by the end of it, it will be overwhelmingly clear that Trump has lied about everything.

 


   
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(@laura-f)
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In'sh'allah, R1, May It Be So!


   
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(@rosieheart)
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Word is that Mueller's team will be resting their case in the Manafort trial today (Monday).  The defense will then have the opportunity to call their own witnesses.  But, it is sounding like it will go to the jury before the end of the week.   It seems likely that the jury will make their decision well before the end of the month.

I mention this because once the Manafort case is tied up, Mueller and his team will be able to put all of their resources and attention into other matters.   I think there's a good possibility that Mueller may subpoena  the President in the next month or so if he continues to drag his feet about voluntarily talking to Mueller, and probably Roger Stone will be subpoenaed - perhaps to appear before the Grand Jury - at some point too.  

However, I've seen  some discussion on various (reliable) news sites suggesting that Mueller will hold off on making any indictments too close to the November election in order not to appear to be affecting the election outcome (remember what happened to Comey!).  So, if we don't see any indictments in the next few weeks, it's possible that Mueller won't issue any more indictments until after the November elections.   The timing must be something Mueller is weighing very carefully.

 


   
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(@jholmes)
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There are a few problems with Mueller waiting til after the elections. and they are both huge

The first is that the voters have a right to know. We weren't informed in the last election, which was really a problem. If the FBI/CIA, etc. know concrete details, it seems really negligent to not let the populace know before we vote.

And secondly, I have zero confidence in the election not being hacked. Again, intelligence services must be very aware of the ways the Russians can actually alter the vote. There have been many recent articles about how even teens and kids as young as 11 have been able to hack into state machines and literally alter votes. So I would think somehow, someone in authority who gives a damn about our democracy, should step in. But that doesn't seem to be happening.

There's not going to be any serious effort made to fix the voting issues until Trump and the corrupt GOP members of Congress are taken down, because Putin obviously is favoring them in the vote hacking. So I'd think Mueller's indictments should happen ASAP!

At this point Trumplandia is going to fume and cry foul no matter what. So there is no "appearing impartial". No such thing.


   
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(@jholmes)
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Also: Just read this article. Trump packing the courts, and esp the supreme court opening, is another vital reason to act now:

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/authoritarian-expert-demands-mueller-act-now-trumps-slow-motion-saturday-night-massacre-rolls/

“Spare me talk of how the Mueller probe is moving fast,” she continued. “It’s not.”

“Institutions, already very weak before Trump, are in free fall,” she noted. “Act now or likely lose the option to act at all.”

 


   
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(@maria-d-white)
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Just because Russia interfered in the last election in favor of Trump, it doesn't mean they will do it this time around. Russia favors disruption and chaos in the American political process more than any particular candidate. My feeling is that in the midterms they'll be pushing for the most extreme candidates both in the right and left.

As for Mueller's indictments, my impression is that he's trying to wrap things up and be finished about a month before the elections. That way, he can't be blamed for trying to influence the elections - the electorate has had plenty of time to digest and evaluate.

 


   
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(@paul-w)
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In the past the FBI has tried to stay away from anything that might affect an election in the final two months. This is one of the reasons that the Comey letter right before he last election raised some eyebrows. If Mueller keeps with tradition, any new indictments etc. will have to happen yet this month. Also, Russia has been pretty much intervening on behalf of the far right in every country they are trying to disrupt.


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Weighing in a little late here because of being off the grid in Quebec. But I also got what Maria and R1 got about the impact of the book not being enough.  

It will take indictments and also I should add, something economic that sways the big party donors like a trade fiasco and maybe even Charles Koch throwing money at anti trump candidates to being trump down. It is coming though.  


   
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(@zoron)
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Well, the defense has rested its case.  Please tell me there is no way that Trump will pardon a Manafort conviction.  I think we would all be rather "unhinged" by such a move.  


   
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(@maria-d-white)
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Paul, my understanding of the FBI trying to be as apolitical as possible doesn't include halting legal processes for a whole two months. But other people with better understanding of the FBI may have more light to shed on this.

It's definitely false that Russia always supports the far right. In Spain they have supported Podemos, that's best described as radical left. They also supported Syriza in Greece, and the Five Star Movement in Italy, both left-wing parties. And in the UK, they have been known to support Corbyn (they also support UKIP, the far-right Brexit party, at the same time).

One useful thing to understand about Russian politics is that they don't map well onto Western right-left. To our understanding, Putin is a cross between a moderate communist and a far-right social conservative, which doesn't feel strange at all to Russians, but it's difficult for us to wrap our heads around. So, when Russia supports far-right parties in the West, they can justify it on similarities about their very traditional ideas for society. When they support far-left parties, it's because of similarities on ideas about the government having the right to take money from any oligarch to fund whatever pet project they want, and on poor people having cheap access to resources. It would be wrong to classify Putin as far-right by our standards.

Gracesinger, my impression is that Trump is more likely to attempt to get rid of Mueller (good luck with that) rather than just pardon Manafort. He must be aware that Manafort is only one part of his problems.

 


   
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(@irboniece)
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Hello!

Has anyone tried meditating on Mueller lately?

I can't wait for him to speak - after this is all done.  Though he may never speak candidly, I think.  He will be lawful and factual.


   
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(@paul-w)
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Maria, I based my comments on who Putin chooses to funnel money to on Malcolm Nance's book.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Destroy-Democracy-Undermining-Dismantling/dp/0316484814/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534281669&sr=8-1&keywords=malcolm+nance

 

 


   
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(@maria-d-white)
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Malcolm Nance is an author, and like all authors he has his ideology and his agenda. I don't doubt he's dug up a number of truths, but he probably hasn't looked for truths that don't fit his worldview, either.

Here's a report on who is pro-Russian in the EU:

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/images/The_Kremlins_Trojan_Horses_2_web_1115.pdf

As you can see, both far-right and far-left, and some parties that are hard to classify but have some radical ideas.

 


   
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(@paul-w)
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Malcolm Nance's entire career was in intelligence and a lot of it was in Russian counter intelligence. He is a VERY well respected intelligence professional who has contacts around the world still today.  


   
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(@jholmes)
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I don't doubt, Maria, that Putin's interference involves cultivating both far-right and far-left. I'm pretty sure he was behind Jill Stein and wouldn't be surprised if he has influence over Bernie Sanders as well.

That said, he has an ace in the hole with Trump and the corrupt GOP that wouldn't be easy to replicate. So yes, I believe he absolutely will interfere in the 2018 midterms with the goal of building a dam against a blue wave and keeping GOP control of congress. It's clear that he not only has Trump by the short and curlies but a number of the GOP congressmen too. Witness their recent chummy visits over there.  When it comes to sanctions, regulations, money laundering, prosecution of his oligarchs, etc etc, it's in his interests to keep Trump in power and if Dems win the house and/or senate, they'll impeach.


   
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(@rosieheart)
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Here's an interesting article published yesterday in the Atlantic that I think is relevant to this discussion.  It was written by John Sipher, a retired 28 year veteran of the CIA  who actually ran the CIA's Russia operations.   

He suggests that it's not that Putin has "Dirt" on Trump that binds them together, but rather that they share common interests and philosophies, that are getting stronger and converging.   He sees that as a major threat to the U.S.. It's an article worth reading.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/convergence-is-worse-than-collusion/567368/

Sipher now runs an excellent website that provides good insights and analyses what is going on.   The more detailed articles require subscription, but there is some free information that is worth checking out.

https://www.thecipherbrief.com/experts/john-sipher

 


   
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(@maria-d-white)
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My feeling is that Putin would be OK if the Democrats won the House of Representatives and impeached Trump. Then there would be President Pence, and he'd be OK with that. Pence isn't as volatile as Trump, and that makes him easier to influence. And if you look at how Pence has been going to bed with the nastiest big companies, like big tobacco, it's rather clear to me that he's fairly easy to bribe, and he has the minimum remnant of honesty needed to remain bribed, unlike Trump, that doesn't even have that.

Putin would lose some of his pawns in the House of Representatives, but then, my feeling is that Russia has infiltrated the Democratic Party a little as well. There's no point in having all the eggs in one basket, Clinton could have won. I agree that it looks like there are more Republican Congressmen under the influence of Russia, but still, Russia could probably prevent some of the things they don't want even with a Democratic majority in the House of Representatives.

In short, Russia doesn't need to replicate the current situation to keep most of the control they have on American politics. Especially since they don't have as much control as some Democratic activists seem to believe. The US has put new sanctions on Russia since Trump got elected. Either Putin doesn't have all that much control over Trump, or there are enough Republicans willing to go against Trump's wishes, but either way, Russia's influence is clearly less than they would like.

Things would get trickier for Putin if the Democratic Party won also the Senate, or if Pence got impeached as well. What would be a total disaster for him is if Pence got impeached and the Democrats insisted on putting a Democratic Speaker of the House as president. But then, that would also be totally unacceptable for Republicans, from the bottom all the way to the top. They'd be up in arms. Perhaps literally up in arms. And it's pretty unlikely.

 


   
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