Epstein Case - With Barr Un-recused, How will this case play out?  

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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/10/2019 9:47 pm  

If you have thoughts or want to throw cards or post news about this case, about Acosta, or anything to do with this case, I've opened this topic for that purpose. It's okay to keep posting in the Unraveling Topic, though, if you are in a flow there. 


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(@deetoo)
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07/10/2019 10:19 pm  

NYT writer Michelle Goldberg was on Rachel Maddow tonight talking about Epstein and the consequences of elite impunity.  Epstein became synonymous with, as Goldberg puts it, “deep corruption among mostly male elites across parties, and the way the very rich can often purchase impunity for even the most loathsome of crimes.”  I heard that when Epstein finished serving his "time," he wasn't viewed as an outcast among the wealthy and elite society.  Instead, he was pretty much welcomed back, as if nothing had happened -- hosting and attending parties, etc.  And the Manhattan DA, Cyrus Vance, even sought a reduced sex-offender status for Epstein.  Epstein was required to register as a sex offender under that sweetheart deal he got in Miami in 2008.  During a 2011 sex offender registry hearing, Vance’s office argued to downgrade Epstein's sex offender status from a level 3 to the less-restrictive level 1 status.  WHY?

Also -- has anyone heard that Acosta is seeking cuts of 80% to the Bureau of International Labor Affairs' 2020 budget, used to fight human trafficking, forced labor and child labor?  The bureau’s budget would fall from $68m to $18.5m in 2020. The proposed reduction is so drastic that experts say it would kill off many federal efforts to curb sex trafficking.   Here is a link to the story:   https://www.thedailybeast.com/labor-secretary-alex-acosta-who-cut-deal-with-epstein-tried-to-slash-anti-trafficking-budget?ref=undefined

What in blazes is going on?


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(@yogagirl)
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07/11/2019 9:21 am  

This morning I read a comment about an article in the NYT that Epstein was involved with Deusch Bank (there's that old spelling problem again!)  He  has borrowed large sums of money in exchange for expert advise.  Don't know on what but they "fired" him in May of this year about the time they were required to hand over Morons records.  I swear I can feel it in my bones THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!  I just hope they are able to move more quickly on this case then on MOron's.

Epstein is now claiming that he introduced Moron to his wife.  


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(@deetoo)
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07/11/2019 9:42 am  

Yogagirl, I totally agree that it's about money and power.  This has been building for decades.  I guess as a nation we needed someone like T**** to bring all of this immorality and corruption to the surface. 

And the other thing is, we'll never be a peaceful nation without coming to terms with the sins of our past.  I love my country, but we can be arrogant as hell.   And in so much denial.  That's why we're going to have to learn the hard way.  But that's also why I have the strong belief that, in the end, those on the side of justice, love and peace will prevail. 


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(@jessi1978)
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07/12/2019 9:53 am  

Acosta has resigned!!! Another one bites the dust. After his failed attempt to make himself look good


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(@deetoo)
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07/12/2019 10:26 am  

Re Acosta:  a day or two ago, I had heard a Faux News pundit predict that Acosta would step down on Friday.  Faux is so enmeshed with this administration, that I'm not surprised they already knew that.   


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(@elaineg)
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07/13/2019 11:18 am  

Why did Acosta give such a sweetheart deal? Was it money?


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(@yogagirl)
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07/13/2019 2:13 pm  

Yeah I found it interesting that two days ago Acosta proclaimed himself a hero and then BOOM! he resigns.  Who do you think gave the great orange one that order?  Did uncle Vlad call uncle Rupert and give the order?  Enquiring minds want to know .  Geez I can't believe  I typed that last line!  These guys flip flop faster than a fish. 


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(@deetoo)
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07/13/2019 7:45 pm  

 These guys flip flop faster than a fish. 

@yogagirl, thanks for making me laugh!

 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/21/2019 10:25 am  

As for how the Epstein case in the Southern District of NY will play out with the unrecused Barr in charge, one need only look at the recent quiet closing of the Michael Cohen case in that district about hush money payments to Stormy Daniels.  

In that case, prosecutors showed evidence, including an audio recording, that T knew about the payments before they were made. But the case closed with no explanation as to why T's alleged crime went unpunished, not even addressed, by the court.

This news has already been mentioned elsewhere in the Forum, but it bears mentioning here too.

One gets the feeling that Barr will interfere with cases that expose Mango that emerged before Barr came along. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a list drawn up of any pending and current cases that might implicate T so he can see what he can fix. 

If you haven't already read the story,here it is.

Excerpt: That probe, begun in 2017, turned up evidence that Trump himself was aware of the payments, despite his initial public claims to know nothing about them, including a recording in which Trump can be heard speaking to Cohen about efforts to buy the continued silence of Karen McDougal, a Playboy model.

Prosecutors went as far as saying in court filings that Trump directed Cohen to make the payments, though they referred to him in court filings as “Individual 1,” not by name. -- APNews.com

Elijah Cummings has given the A.G. until August 2nd to explain why the case was closed without mentioning Mango's role. Barr may be a fixer but the House democrats will not let these issues die.


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 lynn
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07/21/2019 10:32 am  

@jeanne-mayell

Barr is a disgrace, but I think that if trump loses the next election, there is nothing stopping the next dept of justice/SDNY from indicting him. He hasn't been exonerated. He's still Individual 1, he just can't be prosecuted while in office because of the DOJ memo (which is just policy, but has been followed since 1973). However, as long as the statute of limitations doesn't expire then he can still be prosecuted down the line. That's a big if though, and one of the reasons trump desperately wants another term, so he can run out the clock. 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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07/21/2019 11:40 am  

Lynn, Thank you for the clarification about the statute of limitations. Blue is a wonderful color for a wave in November. And thanks to progressives, T's alleged crimes will not go away even if Barr is able to ignore them for now. I get a vision of Barr keeping a running list of all of the potential legal hazards his boss faces and a staff of people whose job it is to protect T. 


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(@deetoo)
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07/21/2019 1:01 pm  

I'm having a difficult time focusing on this case without feeling the magnitude of it.  It makes me feel nauseous.  So many people are involved ... I see tentacles.  


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(@lovendures)
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07/21/2019 11:08 pm  

Epstein Barr or Epstein and Barr

Both are viruses plaguing humanity.


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(@mas1581)
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07/23/2019 12:22 am  

Anyone see some of the names in Epstein's little black book? Clinton, Prince Andrew, Tony Blair, Kissinger, and Bill Cosby are the names everyone is going to focus on, but theres an interesting name hidden in that list-Rupert Murdoch. If he is involved, that would completely explain Fox News' all in approach on Trump early on and why they are pushing so hard to keep this all covered up.


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(@gracesinger)
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07/27/2019 12:50 pm  

One of my sisters pointed out that Epstein, like Cosby, Trump, and Weinstein, belong to a predator class.  Before they were nameless.  Regardless of the sentences they receive, there is a lot of power in the simple naming of them.  


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(@deetoo)
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07/27/2019 1:58 pm  

I've read that early last Tuesday Epstein was found in his cell, semi-conscious, with marks on his neck.   He was back in his cell on Wednesday, apparently okay.   They don’t know whether it was an assault, attempted suicide, or an attack orchestrated by Epstein so he could be relocated to another facility.  Right now he’s on suicide watch.

Hopefully Epstein is in a solitary cell. He could potentially bring down some of the most powerful men in the world.  Those names need to be revealed and if anyone in the criminal justice system is a target right now, it's probably Epstein.


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(@jholmes)
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07/27/2019 2:01 pm  

He's not in a solitary cell. He tried to hang himself and was found by his cellmate, who alerted the guards and saved him. Apparently, the conditions in the jail where he's been for 2 weeks are appalling.

Good article about it here:

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-epstein-life-behind-bars-20190726-ujdvknsmz5a4rbcgzfms6cqti4-story.html

I'm sort of surprised he would try to kill himself. He must be one hell of a narcissist to have abused so many girls. But maybe he sees the writing on the wall? Maybe he's afraid someone else will take him out and he'd rather do it himself.


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(@saibh)
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07/27/2019 9:51 pm  

What about the idea that someone much farther up the chain ordered Epstein scared into submission? Or ordered him killed but didn’t have time to complete the job? There are people with a lot of money and power to lose if he doesn’t keep quiet. Controlling him was my first impression when I heard about his injury and condition.


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(@vestralux)
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07/28/2019 10:18 pm  
Posted by: @lynnventura

@jeanne-mayell

Barr is a disgrace, but I think that if trump loses the next election, there is nothing stopping the next dept of justice/SDNY from indicting him. He hasn't been exonerated. He's still Individual 1, he just can't be prosecuted while in office because of the DOJ memo (which is just policy, but has been followed since 1973). However, as long as the statute of limitations doesn't expire then he can still be prosecuted down the line. That's a big if though, and one of the reasons trump desperately wants another term, so he can run out the clock. 

@lynnventura, I seem to recall you maybe being an attorney or legal scholar (did I just invent that?), in which case, you will know far better than I, but I've been reading some of the legal arguments for and against a "statute of limitations tolling" in this case.

Tolling essentially refers to a kind of pause button on the clock for the statute. If tolling were applied, DT couldn't use reelection to beat justice.

The legal argument in favor of tolling here is that a president can't both be immune from prosecution while in office, and also enjoy the running of the clock on the statute of limitations for his alleged crimes. That's monarchy, not democracy. The '73 DOJ memo was presented with the stated intention of protecting the Office of the Presidency (and thereby, our national security), not the guy who happens to be holding it.

Even so, some legal scholars say that tolling would be difficult, if not impossible, to argue and present all kinds of constitutional hand-wringing to prove their position. I've never so much as opened a law school textbook, but I feel like anybody with enough decency and good sense can see that tolling is merited in this case. That doesn't mean it will be applied, but I thought I'd bring it up.


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