Any thoughts on Pence?

As Lenin said: "The worse, the better". A horrible reality is that there is now such a crisis in America that it is better that it ends as soon as possible. A prolonged, drawn out crisis, like the one we have now, would be fairly fatal to what is left of things.

I've read that Pence is already the one doing the heavy lifting while Trump golfs, tweets, watches FOX and talks on the phone.  So, for example, Pence is the one who's doing all the behind-the-scenes legislative work to make sure initiatives and policies wanted by the Heritage Foundation (and other ultra right organizations) get implemented.  Do you think he's slowing down or restraining himself for Trump?  I don't.  It only seems like Pence is holding back because he's usually invisible and takes no credit. Unfortunately, Pence is remarkably efficient, and he's making potent progress on his extremist agenda.     

Not sure if this needs to be on a new thread, but I was wondering if we could ask the community to do a view of what they see in 2020/2021 about Mike Pence.  There is a very well written article about Pence in Reuters ( https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-pence-hhs/) and it's scary, but believe it or not, perhaps Pence is actually worse than Trump.  Makes me wonder if many of the things happening regarding abortion,etc. are really Pence's agenda and he's using DJT as his means to an end.  I also wonder if the feeling by some of something weird in the 2020 election has to do with Pence?  Just pondering!

I’ve read that P. is considered a Christian Dominionist.  Perhaps some of you have heard of this idealogy, but I hadn’t until two years ago.   Apparently Dominionists seek to create a nation governed by a certain group of Christians based on their personal understandings of the bible.  They believe that they have a divine mandate to assume positions of power and influence over all aspects of society and government.  So P. believes that he’s one of the chosen ones.  He believes that he is part of this big, divine plan to establish a government based on his definition of biblical law.  To him, the end justifies the means.  So he’s willing to overlook ConDon’s cruelty and corruption.  Meanwhile, he uses his aw-shucks demeanor to convince people that he’s solid, good, sane, and harmless.  I’d read that, while in Congress, he actually turned off a lot of fellow Rethugs with his humble superiority.  (Not so much now, of course.  The Rethugs blindly follow along.) 

I agree that P. is doing things behind the scenes, very quietly and efficiently.  He's a man on a mission, with a big agenda for this country.   P. is a dangerous dude.

We're already half-past Gilead IMHO.

Pence is very dangerous, in ways completely different from Twitler.

What I continue to NOT understand is why there isn't outright rebellion against this entire administration. I just don't get it. The founders were clear - hate the government? Overthrow it!

In the 1960s, there were not only protests, but also a lot of domestic terrorism, mostly from the Left. I'm not an advocate for unnecessary violence, but where are the extremists of the left? Why are there not crowds in front of the WH day and night? Why is no one in this country even showering stupid politicians with milkshakes???

I really hope I live to see some Rethug heads on pikes... or at least to see someone wipe that smug smirk off Penice's face.

I think I've seen more movement from a Halloween animatronic.  

Let's see...Pence is the perfect example of Christian hypocrisy.  Everyone has the right to have their personal beliefs, and to agree or disagree with something, but where he goes wrong is trying to force those beliefs on others.  One thing the Bible stresses is not to judge others.  We all do that, we're human-for example, I think Pence looks like a human grain of rice-but Jesus makes it clear that judgment about who does or doesn't go to Hell is God's and God's alone.

deetoo, not much I can add to your description of Pence.  You summed it up perfectly.  He absolutely thinks Trump is the stubborn goat king described in Daniel and that he has been put into position to bring about the end times.  And maybe that's true, it sure fits.  

If Pence were a true Christian he would have nothing to do with Twitler.

i never realized he was gay, until he started mouthing off about never being alone with a woman, even while having dinner (!).  But he is not like a Happy Gay.   More like an angry gay.  An Angry Bottom Gay.  And i dont mean that in a funny way. It is not funny, it is sad, to be gay in that very angry way     oh well   https://youtu.be/zHG2LJGfEdw                   Happy Pride to everyone else!

@laura-f, I’m also perplexed by the lack of protests.  In 1965 I was about to enter high school when the Vietnam war protests began on college campuses.  I remember they were initially quite small, but gradually grew because of the increased media coverage and the number of young men dying over there.  The protests really escalated after the Tet Offensive in 1968 proved that war’s end was nowhere in sight.  We were lied to.  And of course we all know the eventual outcome. 

Regarding today, I’m wondering whether it’s because not enough people are being personally affected by what is going on in this country, e.g. pocket book issues?    The idea of “I’ve got mine, so I can’t worry about this other stuff.”   How is that even possible, when you see that people’s rights are being stripped away and children are dying?   Where is the moral outrage?  It sounds really cold, I know.  But I also think a bigger factor comes into play.

I also wonder if it’s because people are feeling numb and exhausted.   It can become too much for the psyche to bear, so many people just check out.   And of course, this is what ConDon and his administration wants, so they can expand their control and continue to do their dirty deeds.  During the Vietnam War, we just had the major TV networks giving us the news – no cable, no twitter, no Facebook,  etc.   We’re swimming in a cesspool of mass media.   Too damn much information.  And many people don’t take or have the time to separate the wheat from the chaff.    

I think that’s why some in this community believe that it will take something to shake us to our core.    Something that calls up all of our higher angels.   

great post deetoo.  I remember the 60's and 70's very well.  I know a lot of my friends , aged 60 or older, take the stand that they don't want anything to take that much controll of their life.  Wait until they lose their social security and medicare then they will scream bloodymurder!  

As for Pence I agree he has the potential to be worse that moron.  He is as phony as a three dollar bill.  I have a lot of friends my age from Indiana and most of them hate him.  He cut a lot of money to HIV research because he thought it incouraged homo behavior. Due to his stance on defunding everything that he thought led to deiviant behavior, sexual or other wise, Indiana ended up with a bad meth problem which they still have today.  There are a lot of farmers in Indiana that I wouldn't doubt are feeling the heat of the trade wars right now.  Another thing Pence was brought into the admin by Manafort.  This leads me to believe  that there is some serious dirty on Pence somewhere, that's the wayManafort worked.  Now poor Paul is on his way to Rikers.  BooHoo.

I think it will be intersting when all the investigations are finished how much we find out about evil Pence.

I think young people today only react when something affects them personally first (I admired the Parkland movement by those young folks but it actually "hit home" to them before they did anything). That is in part, in my opinion, to the way their parents are too.  Regardless of that, I do feel Pence is insane and evil, which I actually don't get from DJT. I can't stand DJT, but I think Pence is much more conflicted within himself. I don't think DJT gives a hoot about others, but Pence is truly more twisted - and is probably very conflicted because he is gay (which would explain a lot).

My personal feeling is this: if the SDNY and others finally reveal the financial damaging info I KNOW is there (not sure when it will be revealed though) then this entire administration goes down. Not just DJT, but Pence, McConnell, and others.  That is my hope that the whole thing becomes a smudge on our democracy but not the end, rather the beginning of a better one.  I do feel Pelosi needs to get the impeachment process going though this year even if it doesn't reach impeachment.  The revealing to those who only watch FOX needs to happen! They are in the dark.

I agree with you TriciaCT.  It's funny that you pointed out Pence being conflicted within himself.  A card reader I know threw on him and ask if he has been thru conversion theropy.  The answer came back as yes in two readings.  She said the cards indicated he was surronded by men Mother was no where in site.   He is trying to live a double life and coming very close to the edge.  If true don't believe for a minute someone doesn't know and are threatening blackmail if he doesn't tow the line.

I think he’s gay and he might be ashamed of it.  Hence why he wants to be seen as this religious nut  and that’s why he tries to enact all these anti LQGBGT laws. On another note did any one read about Duerte from the Philippines and he saying he was once gay but “cured” himself when he met his ex-wife.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1013746

He also goes after the LQGBT community

Someone asked via twitter why Great Britain turned out in huge numbers to protest Trump and America ... hasn't. Reasons given included the size difference between the two countries therefore GB easier to organize/travel. Money or lack thereof was another reason. But the thing that broke my heart was the vast majority (and there were many) said they had given up hope. They are completely overwhelmed.

Pence is dangerous. He's a self loathing, closeted, religious zealot determined to turn our country into a theocracy. According to a CNN contributor and biographer, Pence believes that God wants him to be president. He makes my skin crawl. Literally. I have a physical reaction every time I see or hear him. He's terrifying.

Another note....Trump wanted Christie for VP.....Paul Manafort pushed for Pence.

Bumping this in light of what happened yesterday with Mother Mike Pence. He got called off AF 2 to  return to the WH "stat".  WH is denying any emergencies, so I took a moment to try to visualize what's going on. I'm not getting much, hoping others see more.

I see Twitler melting down about something, more incoherent than ever, possibly a mini-stroke. The Pence recall was twofold: 1. Needs to be there in case the stroke blooms and he has to take over, and if not, 2. He is one of only a few who has an ability to calm Twitler down a tiny bit, so they want him to try that.

Anyone else notice that all of Twitler's tweets are with good grammar and spelling today?? anyone else think C-Grade Fascist Stephen Miller is the one actually tweeting?? Anyone else notice that Twitler has not made any in-person rants yesterday or today??

I hope he has a massive aneurysm, the kind that turns cortex tissue to go. #GoGoo

Along with I suspect a lot of people I am apprehensive at what Trump will say or do at his extravaganza tomorrow night. That could be the meaning of the prediction referenced about something on July 4 that brings things to a head. If he gets up and makes an angry bombastic screaming speech that could wound him severely. 

I've also sensed what others are' he is in far worse mental and physical state than we have known. 

well a bunch of networks aren't covering the festivities, which is something I guess.

my hope is that somehow we will prove this was an illegal election and get rid of all of them, wipe out his presidency. 

Why don't people protest - well, I think a lot of them are. There's a huge protest on July 12 in  large number of cities. There are always protests outside the White House. We live in a time of selfishness and greed, worse than ever, and we live among a bunch of do-nothings.

It's a little - not a little, maybe a lot - like the Germans and Jews before the war. They just couldn't accept that their government would allow such horrors. And by the time they realized it, it was too late. If you saw Woman in Gold, the husband of the model for Woman in Gold (she was already deceased) was en route to Switzerland. His relative told him the Germans would never issue such an outrageous mandate. And look what they were already putting up with.

The people who realized what was happening got out. The rest just stayed in an outrageous situation - too hard to move, they had extended family there, it was all too much to even think about. I can't convince my sisters to move - I want to leave. Of course I don't want to go alone, but I may have to.

When I was volunteering for an organization years ago, I escorted an elderly woman - she was incredible, I'll never forget her - she was 88 - out for the day. She was Jewish. She studied in Vienna before the war. She asked her Jewish friends how they could stand such awful antisemitism. Well, they were happy in their ghetto. It's awful, but that's the way it is. We are fortunate that we have a lot of people speaking up. As far as some sort of national thing, someone is going to have to organize a march on Washington. I think you'd see a large number. A general strike, a walkout - but everyone has to be together. And some people are too afraid.

I'm wondering what you all see with Mike Pence, especially now that Sondland's testimony implicates him. As I heard this piece on NPR this morning, I thought, "He will resign." I sure hope that's right. Many of you feel do not see Pence as president. What do you see?  

"I mentioned to Vice President Pence before the meetings with the Ukrainians that I had concerns that the delay in aid had become tied to the issue of investigations," Sondland testified.

Pence responded later that day.

"I made no comments in my meeting with President Zelenskiy concerning any investigations or tying investigations to U.S. aid to Ukraine, and I have no recollection of any discussion with Ambassador Sondland before that meeting," Pence said.

With his role in the Ukraine story under increased scrutiny, Pence finds himself suddenly ensnared in a scandal that threatens to end with just the third ever impeachment in U.S. history. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/22/781552687/for-pence-impeachment-inquiry-will-test-a-political-path-shaped-by-faith

Along the lines of this thread....if Pence happens to resign first, does anyone see that Nikki Haley becomes VP and then ascends to the presidency when 45 departs?