Abortion in the age of Trump  

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(@lenor)
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12/01/2019 7:57 pm  

@coyote

The politicians are acting subhuman and think they have everyone on their side. They just make me sick. And no matter how I try to understand how those so called christians can go along with this, I just can’t rationalize it because it is just so ugly and wrong..


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(@unk-p)
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12/02/2019 2:51 am  

just gonna park it here.   Pussy Riot  https://youtu.be/91d7-guotjU


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(@triciact)
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12/02/2019 9:39 am  

@coyote

Hi all, thanks for posting this. I actually read this over the weekend and had to pull myself away. I had a visceral reaction to the article and the insanity of the bill and I was in complete disbelief. I've always been fighting for women's reproductive rights since I was in 6th grade. Yes 6th grade. I actually joined the debate club in 7th grade and fought for pro-abortion rights. I wrote my final paper in high school and in college on the topic. I used to feel (on a deep soul level) I was supposed to change people's minds about this since I was young.

I knew a woman (a friend of a dear friend of mine) who jumped off a cliff to her death because she was pregnant at 17 and her parents told her they would disown her if she ever came home pregnant (there was no right for abortion yet since it was around 1969 or 1970 that this happened).

I think that this, and many other things we all post about in this forum is why we can't stop talking about Trump and the GOP. We know that until and unless we get rid of this insane POTUS and his GOP lawless patriarchal evildoers we will be seeing more of these kinds of things happening.

My heart hurts hearing this, and since I feel too emotional about it I hope one of our intuitive readers here will write about what they feel will be the outcome of this group in Ohio's insane bill.


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(@coyote)
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12/02/2019 8:38 pm  

@triciact

The Ohio bill will not become enduring law. Ohio's "heartbeat" abortion bill was blocked from taking effect by a federal judge because it put an undue burden on women, so I don't see this latest swipe at abortion passing muster under the eye of the courts if it is signed into law, not least because the medical procedure it mandates does not exist. Of course, the bill may not be passed by Ohio's full legislature, so it may not even make it as far as the courts.


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(@suspira44)
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12/06/2019 12:13 am  

There was a judge confirmed today - 42 years old so she will be with us for a long time - who is opposed to surrogacy. 186 new judges, many of them unqualified but confirmed by the Senate.  I don't see how we can undo the damage, I really don't. I'm thinking of just putting on blinders and earplugs and be like people who say "well, it doesn't affect my life" or "It has nothing to do with you." Okay so if that's true, I can go live in lala land with the rest of them.


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 lynn
(@lynnventura)
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12/06/2019 7:20 am  

@suspira44

I share your concern about these judges, and that we'll have to live with them for decades. Here are a few thoughts that I employ not try to make myself feel better. First, it's conceivable that some may leave on their own, especially the ones who are so unqualified they might not feel at home among their fellow judges. Second, some may be impeached for misconduct. Third, the next administration can seek to expand the federal judiciary, which is in need of expansion, and that will somewhat cancel out the bad appointees. Finally, if, if, if, the dems can keep the white house and the senate (big ifs) for the next 8 years, they will have a crack at all the retiring Reagan, HW Bush and George Bush appointees (on top of the Clinton ones), many of whom may be moving slightly to the left anyway, out of a sense of horror over what these new extremist appointees may try to do. Filling those seats will more than offset the T appointees. 

But, it is concerning and distressing to say the least. 


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(@suspira44)
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12/06/2019 3:36 pm  

the other thing, as someone pointed out to me last night - they may be put in there by Trump, but some of them actually make decisions based on little things like the Constitution and fairness.

 


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(@allyn)
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12/06/2019 4:40 pm  

Disclaimer: I am pro-life and pro-choice (yes, there is such a thing).  If I was raped, I would choose life and keep the baby.  But will I prosecute another mother who makes a different decision?  No, because her circumstances are different than mine. 

Republicans and Trump supporters believe that the scandals and cruelty are all worth it, so long as Trump's judges can overturn Roe v. Wade and take the decision away from women and their doctors and instead give them into the hands of the government.  However, assuming they succeed, they fail to take into account several important things:

By taking abortion out of the hands of women, you basically say that the government has the power to control a woman's body.  This is accomplishing several events:

(1) You are basically saying that government officials know better than women and their doctors about their health and the health of the children they are carrying.  However, China had such power and ended up implementing the one-child policy that resulted in millions of unwanted abortions.  By taking away women's personal rights over their bodies, you basically make it easier for politicians in the future to implement similar policies.  On the other extreme, we could become like Ireland, where millions of women and children were killed in back-alley abortions or even, in extreme cases, allow women and children to suffer extremely painful deaths because Ireland's old law would not allow them to abort a dying fetus to save the life of the mother.  The death of Savita Halappanavar in 2012 demonstrated this reality.

(2) You are sending a message to women that they are stupid.  That their doctors are stupid.  That they know less about their health and/or circumstances than you do.  You want women to view their child as a person, yet you refuse to humanize the woman.  You call her a slut and whore, as well as mock her when she comes forward to claim she is a victim of rape, harrassment, etc.  You support a president who admitted on tape to sexually assaulting women.  How can you possibly ask women to look at their babies as people when you won't do the same for them?

(3) A Catch-22 situation that probably hasn't occurred to Trump supporters.  If the government gets to dictate control over a woman's body, then that power could extend to (gasp) their firearms!  Yes, a decision to overturn Roe v. Wade could one day be used to limit a citizen's access to their beloved guns.  Think about it.  Republicans say that outlawing abortion would save lives.  Well, people can argue that taking guns away from the general populace can save children's lives too!  

(4) Remember when Republicans used to abide by the "compassionate conservative" doctrine?  Well, they have lost all credibility in that regard.  Not only do they support Trump as their leader, but they continue to support other questionable candidates.  These people constantly parade their cruel treatment and views of women as though it were acceptable.  As though it were desired.  Small wonder women are leaving the Republican party in droves.

Now, there is a way to solve this dilemma.  Because I know that some of the Republicans are truly sincere in their desire to protect life, and I respect that.  So, to Republicans and Trump supporters, if you are planning to punish the women and the doctors, then why not punish the men too?  These women didn't get pregnant by themselves!  And over half of abortions performed in this country is paid for by....the father.  So why are there no laws punishing them?  I say the laws should be fair.  If you are going to take away a woman's rights, you should take the man's rights as well.  For every time a woman is forced to carry a child against her will, the father of that child should be sterilized. 

Also, in order to further protect life, start taking women's complaints about rape and harrassment seriously and start treating them as human beings.  Oh, and raise the wages for women to the same rate as men so that the children they create can be adequately supported.  That way, you protect life and ensure that any complaints from the "socialist left" are non-existent.

So, why not do this? 

HELLLLOOOO?  Republicans?  Trump supporters?  Why not make the laws fair?  You want to protect life, don't you?  Then why not restrict the men's rights as well?  Make sure that he will support the child that he helped create as opposed to creating more in the future and being unable to support them?  Anyone there?  

Hmmm…..no answer.  Oh, well.  Can't say I didn't try! 😉

(And no, I don't hate men, either.  I had the great fortune of growing up with a wonderful father and surrounded by men who would never dream of mistreating a woman.  Basically, the definition of "real men."  It's a shame there are not as many of them in Congress as we would like.)


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(@coyote)
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12/06/2019 5:21 pm  

@suspira44

We absolutely have to get rid of lifetime appointments for federal judges, including the Supreme Court, and I sense there's going to be major push to do just that in the 2020s once the dust from the Trump years has settled. It's insane that both parties are constantly trying to game out how to take over the courts "for the next generation." I don't care if we end up appointing a whole new slate of lifetime liberal judges in the coming years. The vicissitudes of a single election cycle should never have the outsize effect of determining judicial policy for decades to come. Democracies can't work that way. Once we end lifetime appointments for judges, all of the T judges will have to retire much sooner.

Back to the primary focus of this thread; we'll have to steel ourselves. 2020 is probably going to see a spate of tough state-level abortion bills that try to ban abortion outright just like the Ohio ectopic pregnancy bill. The New York Times just published an article about this. But here's my intuitive reading: these bills and the groups backing them will fail in their quest to overturn Roe v. Wade. First, as you pointed out, Suspira, even if they're appointed by this administration, many of these new judges still adhere to the Constitution. In fact, several of us on this site have seen that many supposedly "safely conservative" Trump appointees would make key rulings that displease the GOP. But I also feel like we're at the peak of the dark energy that's behind the current GOP push to strip women of their bodily rights, and sometime soon, possibly after the 2020 elections, all of that dark momentum that has been building up for years will deflate rapidly (there's a systems theory phrase for this: it's called a Seneca Collapse). The worst that will happen is that a number of states will make it even harder for women to get abortions, but those hurdles will be struck down in the second half of the 2020s (either through the courts or legislatively). The 2020s are going to be a decade of exponential cultural shifts for the better, so hang in there.


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