The Covid-19 Pandemic (When posting new information, please cite sources)

I have been observing this forum since early last year. Since last year i thought the onset of recession will be March 2020. I thought i was the Trump-China trade war that brought the world into recession. However, in late January when China imposed lockdown, i got myself agitated because that could be the real trigger for global recession, hence,well prepared myself to shelter the aftermaths.  

It is true that we, current human populations have never live through a global pandemic, making it difficult to 'see' as there is no point of reference. Motivated by this, I would like to expand your point of references that things that might come at the global scale. This pandemic is nothing compared to what it comes, it is just a preparatory point that helps us to learn the weakness in current political and monetary system. I afraid that people in power within this decade will still be stubborn. I would recommend the book, "Thiaoouba Prophecy". Google it, you can find the pdf book. Michel Desmarquet the author of that book who had passed away last year also written a book called Nature's Revenge  did describe the global virus outbreak. 

It is true that we will have to deal with the very sudden unexpected effect of global change within this 2 decades, which i see some of you have described it in the predictions in decade ahead. It is the natural cycle and it is inevitable, worsens by human behaviour. Finger crossed. 

I posted last Saturday that I had a vision that the virus was decreasing or weakening in some manner.  I seemed to see a statistical curve going down quickly and a spider on its back.

Three days later I had a dream that seemed to clarify my question whether this was just temporary.  I had a dream that I was in another person's house, felt like a guest bedroom.  I saw a piece of furniture that had signs of something disturbing.  I lifted up the furniture and there was thousands of tiny pale weird looking bugs hiding under the furniture. They were clumped together in two large masses and hiding as best they could.  I was determined to squish the bugs and kill them, but their light little bodies scattered as soon as I made a motion towards them.  I felt weird and left the house, got in my car and as I was driving away saw that a few of them had somehow become hidden in one of my sleeves and had crawled out onto my hand as I was driving.  I started to take one hand off the steering wheel to squish them.  I was successful with two bugs.  Then I noticed a third bug on my hand was actually more tan than the other two and easier to see as it crawled.  The same time I noticed this I looked closely at the skin on my hand and it had tiny bumps which I knew were bugs that were somehow under my skin.  These bumps were tiny but plentiful and creeped me out during the dream so much that it was difficult to deal with the last bug on my hand and it escaped.  Then I woke up.  I had the feeling this dream was about the virus but wasn't sure as it wasn't spiders like the last few dreams.  I think the virus "bug" is represented this way because it is being portrayed in the dream as less scary as it seems to decrease in numbers. Maybe this means it will appear that the virus situation will be better for a while but in reality the virus is still around in higher numbers than we realize and mutating (the one bug was a different color from the others).  The bugs under the skin could represent all the asymptomatic carriers which we can't deal with since we still don't institute a comprehensive testing regime.  The asymptomatic people are one of the main problems...if everyone wore a face mask this would ameliorate the asymptomatic carrier problem but many people refuse to wear face masks.  Some strains may be more problematic than others, some strains of virus may linger on under the radar more than others...all of these strains are still mutating.  I am not sure what this means for our future in fighting the virus. So stay wary and careful my friends.

I am soooo tired of people not wearing masks. 

It reminds me of the 80"s and 90's when there was a big division of whether we should have smoking allowed in restaurants and public places.  So many restaurant owners complained not having a smoking section would drive away business.  Most states/cities have bans now, though some still do not which is difficult to believe.  But having a ban didn't keep people from gong to restaurants.  No one can smoke on US airfreights now either.  There are things we just should do.  Right now it should be no shirt, no shoo3s, not mask no service.

@lovendures

Hear hear!! I am actually more worried about going shopping and to doctor appointments than I was during lockdown. People are just so inconsiderate. I have to remember to breathe because I'm getting a lot more stinkeyes than I should be and it makes me very angry. I'm exhausted of asking people politely to please put their mask on and having them tell me to go f*ck myself "it's still a free country" (LOL, yeah right). There's no enforcement of the few remaining rules left anyways. I would grade them:

Retail workers - A+. Delivery people - B-. Nurses- A+. Med techs - B. Other Shoppers - F-. People walking on sidewalks - F. Joggers - F-. People on bikes - A-. Homeless - B+. Police on duty - B+. EMTs and Firemen - A+.

And then there's my eye doctor. Who I had to go to last week for a long postponed follow up on a minor issue. Long story short, she touched my face/eyes without washing her hands or wearing gloves. I pushed away and asked to to disinfect her hands. She put a drop of Purell on her hands while she laughed at me and made phony excuses.  I couldn't leave right then due to what was being done, but I was so steamed I emailed her. I wanted to report her somewhere, but there's literally nowhere, trust me, I tried. I thought maybe the state medical board, but my husband wants to return to her and I didn't want to get us both fired from the practice. Her reply was contrite and insincere, so I won't be returning to her ever again and mark my words, if I come down sick within the month after, I'm going to sue her so hard that her grandkids will be paying damages to my grandkids.

Driving to another medical appointment today (5 blocks away, but that's what it's come to), I noticed restaurants that are supposed to have tables 6 feet apart do not, with big signs "We're open!" So seeing that, I'm having to cross some of them off my order in list because if it was just their kitchen people with masks and gloves that's ok, but now with the public in and out contaminating all surfaces, nope.

So reopening for many of means even deeper self-isolation. And we still haven't figured out what to do when my husband begins biz travel again...

Stephen Hawking once said that stupidity and greed would lead to the end of humanity. Right now I can totally see that.

@laura-f

While I described my bleh time at getting my car serviced this morning, I had a completely different experience after picking it up. 2 experiences actually

I drove to the local nursery to purchase some new plants for my garden.  The last time I had ventured there was just a few days before our lockdown.  Back then my intention was to buy some vegetables  for our garden and to make our backyard look beautiful with spring flowers, especially since I knew we would be spending so much time at home and outdoors would be a sanctuary for us.  Since that time over two months has past.  The jalapeño I planted is now producing peppers and the basil is growing freely.  My spring flowers however are not long for our Arizona summer since they can not take the heat we have been having, let alone what is to come.  So, it was time to get some summer varieties, mostly colorful vinca for right now and an organic zucchini plant.   The trip to the nursery was wonderful. Even though the entire place is outdoors, you are required to where a mask.  Masked employees were checking you as you enter.  It wasn't crowded either, it was peaceful.  You could wander around and enjoy the beauty and energy of the plants and almost feel their joy and they were being watered, soaking in the refreshment  I look forward to coming back soon.   

Now lastly, I also made one additional trip outside my home today.  We actually needed some things at Target.  Yes, I went there tonight.  But, I purposely went a half hour before they closed hoping it would be uncrowded at that time of night.  I needed some household items including storage containers.  My youngest is moving into a new apartment in a week and my oldest is moving halfway across the country in 2 months.  Lots of organizing and packing going on over here. So, the 3 of us took a quick trip tonight to Target at night right before closing.  

it was doable.   Quiet and calm and the few folks in there were mostly wearing masks.  

Within 5 minutes of our 20 minutes inside, both my girls stood in wonder staring at some beautiful household items from Magnolia Home ( Joanna Gaines).  They were in awe standing in front of an aisle filled with beautiful bedding, kitchen pottery, baskets and home decor items that any young woman in her 20's would love to have in a new apartment or home.  Heck, their mother would love to have them too.  They were real items, not an image from some online company  The impact of the moment dawned on them.  They were doing something that they once considered normal in a world which had not been normal for quite some time.  This was now a whimsical trip, a special outing where they could dream for a moment.  Their mouths were probably open, I just couldn't tell because of the masks they were wearing. 

And that is when my oldest daughter said:  "I forgot how much I like shopping" and my youngest daughter responded:  "I know, I was thinking the same thing".  

As we paused  there  admiring the pretty items "calling to us"  before moving on to pick up the things we actually needed, I knew we had just had a meaningful "moment" together.

@Lovendures

But wait - what happened when you went to pick up the car?? LOL I kept thinking ok, next paragraph...

I love the rest of your story anyway. I am also doing my best to pick quieter times for shopping, and oddly they are the times that used to be more crowded (except 4-5pm, that has been and always will be a mess).

As for gardening, I think I mentioned before I hate doing it. I grow some herbs and succulents (including nopales and tunas), and we have lemon, loquat and avocado trees. My allergies are so bad even 15 minutes of weeding makes me sick, so I avoid, tend to the pots and a few beds and pay other people to do the bulk of the work (grateful we can afford that and keep others employed). The issue out here is also we get a long, dry, hot summer (not as hot as you all), and even with the marine layer, the amount of water needed to keep things growing is staggering and SO expensive here.

The Magnolia collection is very nice, I used to stop and browse that Target section, too. Luckily I'm not in need of tchochkes, so I haven't bought anything, but if I had to put stuff in a brand new apartment or house, I'd stop there first to get stuff. I have not ventured into our Target, it was kind of gross before, and again, nothing I can't get online, so I haven't.  I have gone to Home Depot, which actually has a fair amount of cleaning supplies, to get get garden stuff. Our local nursery is great, also outdoors, but haven't really felt compelled to visit this year. I'm more of a guerilla shopper - in and out as fast as possible (even in the Before Times), I'm not much for browsing.

Our open space parks have reopened, so I'm heading out in 20 minutes to get my dogs on some grass in an open field nearby that's never crowded on weekdays (not a dog park, so they'll be on flexi-leashes).

@laura-f

My post about dropping off my car for service can be found in the "wellness checking in thread".  Sorry about the confusion.  It was not a comfortable experience.  Picking it up was quick and ok however.  Businesses are so different,   The dealership service department -contemporary, air-conditioned indoors, spotless, employees with no masks.  The nursery- hot outdoors, dusty, garden setting, masks required.  

@lovendures   We need to make it easier for people to get masks. But with Donald Trump in the White House we're doomed to have endless shortages of crucial supplies. We should make it easy for people

to get one at the nearest 7-11. As matters stand, people have to either order them online, make a doctor appointment to get one, or try to make a homemade mask which might be really shot and not any good.

Posted by: @5leafclover

@lovendures   We need to make it easier for people to get masks. But with Donald Trump in the White House we're doomed to have endless shortages of crucial supplies. We should make it easy for people

to get one at the nearest 7-11. As matters stand, people have to either order them online, make a doctor appointment to get one, or try to make a homemade mask which might be really shot and not any good.

The self made masks are not that bad, as long as you wash them when you are back home. And I think it not only helps protecting you, but also when you have a cold/covid, it protects other.

In Europe it become a fashion item, you see all kinds of designs ( A lot home made, and also fun merch, band merch etc)

And it is always better than none, for people that are not in the danger group. These need real medical masks

@tbs   And even a bandana or scarf will stop droplets from a sneeze or cough from getting to another person.  

  When this started I had a long silk scarf I would triple-fold and tie around the back of my head.  It was not super-thick but it fit snugly and didn't leak around the sides.  Then recently my employer gave everyone surgical masks.  The one I have leaks around the sides so bad that I estimate probably half of my exhalations do not go through the mask.  (These things are one-size-fits-all which is a nice theory but never true in practice.  Esp. if you are petite.  :-/  )     

Anyhow the point is if people cant find a mask they can get bandana or piece of cloth and give themselves the old west bandito look. It's a heck of a lot better than nothing.  

I am an nurse and just want to say that masks to trap droplets are not supposed to be sealed to your face or need to be filtered. They are designed to breathe in fresh air from their sides. They are very effective in blocking most droplets emitted with speech and casual breathing whether they are made from cloth or surgical mask paper--no matter which design. N95 are for aerosolized particles that are airborne used in TB rooms, people with COVID who are intubated or having other aerosolized procedures and people with varicella. Also, people walking outside, unless it is a crowded sidewalk in an urban setting don't generally need to wear a mask although it is sometimes convenient if one is going in and out of places. Joggers, cyclists and runners do not or rather should not try to exercise wearing a mask. They have enhanced oxygen needs when exercising. Also people with COPD, lung conditions, asthma and claustrophobia do not have to wear masks. It can exacerbate their shortness of breath and/or initiate panic attacks. Most of those people try to stay home because they are a higher risk for illness. When I stress test people, if they go on a treadmill, I instruct them to take off their mask. Additionally, I give them permission to remove their mask during a chemical test as the medication causes shortness of breath. Of course, all my patients are tested for Covid but even before that, we did not try to force people to wear them during the test unless they were tested positive and then we requested the chemical test and/or reschedule the test.

Mask wearing is a two way street. I live in a city, and  few are wearing them outside anymore at all (25% compliance, down from 40% 2 weeks ago). People are gathering in restaurants, offices are filling up.... I have to go 5 blocks for an appointment, walking, that's almost 100 people, many of whom are jogging on the sidewalk towards me. Many are whole unmasked families taking up the whole sidewalk. I can't exactly jump into traffic to maintain distance. I am immune deficient. I am also asthmatic. I also am a former allied healthcare professional (who had to wear the real N95 masks at times, and surgical masks daily). I wear a surgical mask unless I'm out in open space, then I wear a fabric one.

So yes, you don't need a N95 mask if you're not a healthcare worker or ill, and there's no reason to wear one during a stress test if you've been medically cleared to do so,  however the lack of common consideration for others (i.e., just wear something, anything) is what angers me more than anything. I get it that risk is low out of doors, but it still exists.

We are supposed to be protecting EACH OTHER.

So to say masks are not needed for everyday activities is offensive to me, and to spread that idea as acceptable in lieu of being considerate is just irresponsible and rude.

Think of it as an exercise in kindness. Do unto others. Wear a mask in populated spaces.

Posted by: @rowsella

I am an nurse and just want to say that masks to trap droplets are not supposed to be sealed to your face or need to be filtered. They are designed to breathe in fresh air from their sides. They are very effective in blocking most droplets emitted with speech and casual breathing whether they are made from cloth or surgical mask paper--no matter which design. N95 are for aerosolized particles 

I have a question for you since you are a pro:  We have access to a few P95 masks with exhalation valves and seals around the edges..  I understand that those will protect the wearer very well, but does the fact that the exhaled air exits the valve unfiltered cause a problem for others?  That is, would it be less effective at protecting others than a surgical mask or cloth mask?  Particles from a cough or sneeze would be interrupted in their straight path outward, but is that good enough?

@ana I'm sorry to say I don't know much about those masks. We don't have those kinds of masks in my hospital. I have been fit tested only on a specific type that I can't even get now. When I am allowed to use an N95 mask at my job it is usually for a procedure that has aerosol risk (like a Transesophageal Echo or a bubble procedure during an ECHO with a CV+ patient on a ventilator). They are usually masks that are used and disinfected using a H303 vapor procedure. I try to ensure they have a seal on my face by pressing the shiny border on the inside against my skin. But from a cursory inspection on the website, it appears those valves are covered with filters so I assume the valves just allow inhaled air in and exhaled air to escape while the mask itself is retaining a seal. The filters are similar to the masks that I wear-- dense felted fiber which is designed to catch small particles like a net so I would assume so.

@laura-f

Where I live, we cannot enter any business without a mask and most people wear them indoors. Outdoors.. well, I have not seen crowds or dense areas without people wearing them but they do walk outside without them on if there are only a few people out and distance themselves (walk away from each other) outside. Of course, we have only had nice (warm, not rainy) weather for the last week. I stay home most of the time (go out about once a week for groceries) when I am not at work (where I have a mask on all day). I do take it off to get some fresh air and some sun on my face when I get outside. But I take care not to be close to anyone (within 6 ft). When I go shopping, I am wearing a mask until I get in my car. There is now an governor's executive order that says business owners can require masks and refuse business to those that don't wear them. My husband has to wear fire-rated workshirts (coated/treated with long sleeves) and a mask while at work in over 90 degree areas even up on ladders and gets dizzy. At night he gets horrible muscle cramps. I think he should be able to pull the mask down when he is up on the ladders while he is installing lights etc. The pharmaceutical company employees are walking around maskless inside. No one says anything when he points that out.

NYC is set to reopen by June 6.

Some new info on the virus itself, I can't speak to accuracy, but it's an interesting avenue for research and does answer some questions:

COVID19 May Be a Blood Vessel Disease

An interesting story about how Iceland beat the coronavirus.  They are a small rural country, so that helped, but they had an aggressive early tracking and testing approach that seems to have worked.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/08/how-iceland-beat-the-coronavirus  

Does anyone else get a really bad feeling about the numbers in the coming weeks due to all the protests? My son's girlfriend's parents were down at the protests daily last week, and I was downtown distributing food to residents in an affected neighborhood last weekend, so we've told the kids they need to keep distanced for a week to make sure we didn't bring anything home. Most of the gatherings were very masked - I'm hearing that people at George Floyd's memorial site will tell you to go away if you show up without a mask-  but the marches and protests weren't quite as covered. And Minnesota is already experiencing a rapid rise in numbers; what about the rest of the country after all this? My son's college just sent out a notice that classes will start a week early, in person ... in a state that has never shut down. I'm feeling very nervous about summer.

@saibh

You are right to be concerned. Anyone who is worried should self isolate for 14 days, not one week.

If I was in college right now and they insist on in-person classes, I'd either take Fall semester off on Leave of Absence or transfer elsewhere. If that's at all possible, your son should do so.