Trump's withdrawal from the Kurds & Impact on the Middle East Situation  

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(@jeanne-mayell)
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10/09/2019 11:14 am  

On October 6, Trump announced he was withdrawing U.S. protection of the Kurds at the Turkish, Syrian border. He did this on Putin's birthday as a gift to his mentor, and called Erdogan the Turkish premier to tell him he was handing him the Kurds.  On October 9th, Erdogan announced he was moving troops towards NE Turkey to sweep over the region and the Kurds. This topic is about the impact of Trump's decision, the history of U.S. treatment of Kurds, and the history of the U.S. in the Middle East that Americans could benefit from understanding. 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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10/09/2019 10:20 am  

Trump's withdrawal from supporting the Kurds has now made way, as Trump knew it would, for the Turkish army to sweep over the Kurds. It appears he consulted no one, not his own military advisers and did so with his usual ignorance the world over which he recklessly wields power.

 He made this move to please the dark overlords he admires and wants to emulate here in the U.S., Putin and Erdogan He announced his decision on Putin's birthday and then called Erdogan to tell him he's giving them the Kurds who have been U.S. allies.

That invasion is now happening. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/09/768490136/turkish-forces-launch-military-operation-against-kurds-at-syrian-border  

I hope Donald Trump is forced to watch the brutal slaughter of his whimsy. 


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 Baba
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10/09/2019 10:31 am  
Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

Trump's withdrawal from supporting the Kurds has now made way, as Trump knew it would, for the Turkish army to sweep over the Kurds. It appears he consulted no one, not his own military advisers and did so with his usual ignorance the world over which he recklessly wields power.

 He made this move to please the dark overlords he admires and wants to emulate here in the U.S., Putin and Erdogan He announced his decision on Putin's birthday and then called Erdogan to tell him he's giving them the Kurds who have been U.S. allies.

That invasion is now happening. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/09/768490136/turkish-forces-launch-military-operation-against-kurds-at-syrian-border  

I hope Donald Trump is forced to watch the brutal slaughter of his whimsy. 

The problem is that he could watch the slaughter and not care at all. He has no conscience. That is one of the things that makes him a monster. 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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10/09/2019 10:57 am  

@Baba, so true.

Trying to find a good summation of the Kurds' situation and the U.S. involvement.  I think this one is good, but please let me know if you find it in error and have a better one.  Feel free also to correct what I've posted here. I am not a Middle East expert. But I want to understand what is true and morally right.

https://theweek.com/articles/815382/remember-kurds

"Trump told the American troops he visited in Iraq that America can't keep playing "policeman of the world." We are "doing the fighting for every nation on earth" without being "reimbursed," he complained. "We're no longer the suckers, folks." It's funny he should say that because many groups in countries that the U.S. has invaded and destabilized since World War II feel the same way. America uses them to advance its (often inchoate) ends and, once they have served their purpose, hangs them out to dry.

"Arguably, the group most used and abused by America is the Kurds, who happen to be non-Arab Sunni Muslims. When it comes to them, America seems to have embraced notorious war-monger and Nixon-era Secretary of State Henry Kissinger's advice. "Promise [Kurds] anything," he said, "give them what they get, and f--k them if they can't take a joke.'"

 


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(@bluebelle)
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10/09/2019 12:33 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

The Kurds are heavy on my heart today.  Their deepest fears are coming true and our president and his supporters are fully to blame.  It is a stain on our country, this betrayal of our allies who have already fought and sacrificed so much in trying to defeat our enemy ISIS.  There is deepest sorrow and despair in the Kurdish region today.  Send our love and light to them in their darkest hours ahead.  May God have mercy on their souls.


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(@deetoo)
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10/09/2019 2:51 pm  

@jeanne-mayell, thank you for opening this topic and for the links.  @bluebelle, I too have a heavy heart today.   Last night I heard that in a matter of hours, the Turks would be moving in.  At that moment I felt it already happening, and I had a strong visceral reaction -- dizzy and really sick to my stomach.  I had a lot of anxiety and trouble sleeping last night.  I feel responsible because I am a part of this country -- I feel so ashamed.  The level of cruelty that our country has  displayed within the past 3 years is staggering.  I agree with @Baba that he could easily watch the slaughter without a care in the world -- except, of course, for his poll numbers.  

I'm sending light and love to the Kurds, but it doesn't seem enough. Like giving a dollar to a homeless person.  At least that's how it feels -- so overwhelming, when the inevitable is about to happen. 

The depth of my anger matches my despair.  That orange monster could have been reined in a long time ago, were it not for those boot-licking cowards on Capitol Hill.  May they rot in the hell of their own making.

 


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(@deetoo)
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10/09/2019 4:46 pm  

A good overview of T's long business connections with Turkey and Erdogan:  

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/donald-trump-s-longtime-business-connections-turkey-back-spotlight-n1064011


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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10/09/2019 5:26 pm  

@deetoo

Thank you for that article:  These words jumped out: 

“'It’s absolutely staggering” that Trump made a decision that “has put us on the brink of causing genocide in Syria,' said Wendy Sherman, an undersecretary at the State Department during the Obama administration. The decision underscores the “impulsiveness” and “the transactional, quid pro quo-ness of the president,” she said.

That “transactional” charge is based on the Trump family’s multitude of continuing business entities and interests, all separated from the president — at least on paper — by the trust that now controls them. But the president is the beneficiary of that trust and two of his children have roles in it."


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(@laura-f)
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10/10/2019 12:09 am  

A side effect of this atrocity is that the Kurds are guarding Isis fighters they have captured. As the Kurds are slaughtered, the Isis fighters will escape and return to the Caliphate. Also, from a friend of a friend who is high up in the military:  Turkey has become a Caliphate for all intents and purposes. The Ottoman Empire returns.


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(@erkmen-savaskan)
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10/11/2019 8:56 pm  

The Turkey problem is more complex than that. It can not "just" become a caliphate. Nor is the Ottoman Empire returning. It is not a Middle Eastern country which can simply turn into any regime it wants to without the rest of the world suffering from it. It is a G20 member, extremely influential in world politics, an industrialised country and is governed based on law and a sophisticated constitution. It is not Syria or Iraq. It has land on Europe and neighbors with the entire geography ( i.e. Russia, The Caucassus, Greece, Bulgaria, Iran, and on the southeast with Syria and Iraq ). Its economy grew more than China in the last 25 years and if it collapses it is going to have a very bad influence on the European community economics as the main trading partner of Turkey. Yes, Erdogan & co are attempting to steer the country away from its natural allies i.e. the NATO ( Turkey is a founding member of NATO ) and Europe. The political repercussions of this will be determining for Europe's fate as Turkey occupies a big strategic and economic position. In example, it won't be like the Greek economy collapsing.

The Kurdish issue is a very cruel act but it is an outcome of a larger political issue covering the USA - Turkish relationships, Russia and Turkey and Turkey's political and strategic interests in its immediate geography. The Turkish army is one of the most powerful in the world ( 8th in world ranking ) and is a technological force for anybody to be reconed with.What I mean to say is that Turkey going rogue and independent is going to have a much bigger impact on how the world goes nowadays than we recon here. Instead of just focusing on the Kurds or what it is going to mean for Trump we should also focus on what is happening with Turkey as the situation has a potential to cause a world war in the extreme scenario if it aligns with other countries than the western alliance.

 


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(@erkmen-savaskan)
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10/12/2019 1:00 am  

This is also coming out in the news. So long with a 100 year long history of being global allies between the USA and Turkey. Trump's big mistake.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/turkey-mistakenly-bombs-us-special-forces-in-syria-attack-report


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(@laura-f)
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10/12/2019 2:07 am  

Turkey needs to not be allowed to remain in the western alliances exactly because of what you have said, Ernie. They are going rogue. Erdogan is a theo-autocrat. The country has become less western and more islamic over the last couple of decades.

And when I meditate on it, what I get is that this is yet another push by Russia to de-stabilize Europe and the Middle East, and that nothing will be done about it because the Kurds have so little power on the international stage.


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(@erkmen-savaskan)
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10/12/2019 3:17 am  

@laura-f

Hi Laura,

Turkey is a very dynamic and civilized country and the European Community would obtain large political benefit by including it. They didn't. USA also was reluctant. As a result, the western world now finds itself and its democracy confined in their own local borders. Put Trump and all the other mediocre politicians who govern Europe, USA, Australia and Canada today on top and see the danger for democracy. It is long understood by Russia, China and alike that democracy is not a must to maintain free trade. Turkey went "rogue" because of the discriminative politics of the west. We can not put the outcome of these bad politics forward as a reason to justify it should be excluded (i.e. Turkey changing camps ).

What we are witnessing as a consequence of the short sighted politics of the western world is the corrosion of democracy and the power of the western world becoming history. This is not just a matter of the exclusion of Turkey but also a matter of the impotent western politics regarding China, Russia, India, South America etc.

( Bad western politics has already killed more than a million people in Syria btw., including Kurds. Turkey was not in Syria when that was happening )

That will be the reason of the next big war coming. Power has already shifted and the stones are rolling. There will be different excuses using climate change, migration and creating scapegoats like North Korea or maybe even Turkey (not very likely) but the real reason will be the decline of western power. The west urgently needs to check itself and tidy up its relations with the rest of the world - arrogance has a big backlash and its coming. Humankind has to understand that we are one. Tribalism and camps lead to what we see now and have been seeing throughout history. Karma WILL restore the balance as it always has - and there are far too many hungry and neglected people on this earth to maintain the economic balance we have right now.


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(@elaineg)
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10/19/2019 11:05 am  

My life long republican brother ranted and raved about trump taking troops out so the Kurds could be killed. Then he ranted and raved about the Democrats and trying to get trump out of office from day one.  


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