British Politics & Brexit
Hi everyone, I hope it's ok to start this topic. I'm really bothered by British politics at the moment, we seem to be increasingly heading for a very hard Brexit and I wondered if the group might be able to share any insight on the topic.
There are some people trying hard, working together to fight a hard Brexit. Specifically a Labour MP called Chuka Umunna who chairs a new cross-party group called the Grassroots Coordination Group. I wondered if anyone has any insight into the likely outcome here? I have a feeling about this guy too and wondered if anyone else has picked anything up about him.
Hi from Zoron. I am a UK resident.
Winkrainbow, so am I very concerned. I think it is an excellent idea to start this topic on here. We now have over 4 million hits a year, and climbing, and perhaps a lot of them will come from the UK.
I am going to do a major post on this subject. The issues are actually extending far beyond the UK. The repercussions, in the EU, are going to be major. Within about five years, it will lead to the total break-up of the UK, the constituent parts of the Union reverting to their previous independent status. Much will flow from this. I see, in the later future, a union of Celtic states, that would contain more people and economic power than Sweden. It will be hostile to the remnent UK state, England, which by then will be in a very serious political and economic condition. politically, it may be in a proto-fascist or pre-fascist State. It will certainly be in a serious internal crisis, and greatly weakened internationally. before then, we are going to see a lot of political anger, disturbances, and even violence. A bad, mad, BREXIT is now inevitable. A mad, bad, country, is the consequence of it. unless something drastic happens in england in the next 20 months, this is inevitable. let us do some far-seeing, and see what we get.
Another dark Zoron prediction.
I can see the logic, however. I would also point out that, after working for an American multi-national corporation my entire career (we make large, yellow bulldozers) I can tell you that many U.S. companies with a UK footprint are there for two reasons; the workers speak English and access to the EU. Take away access to the EU and the UK doesn't look nearly as enticing. On the other hand, an independent Scotland that was part of the EU would enjoy a lot of North American investment.
Sorry to hear your prediction about England as London is just about my most favorite city on earth. (Heck, IT IS my most favorite city on earth.)
Well I really hope that isn’t the outcome. Please send positive vibes!
Incidentally, my instinct is that this man, Chuka Umunna will become Prime Minister. I felt this a few years ago, I said it will be Teresa May and then Umunna. But I currently fail to see how he will arrive there, it would mean a Labour win and the failure of Corbyn in government. Something I can’t see happening at the moment.
Does anyone have any insight on leaders, particularly?
Yes, I do have a few insights. As i live in the UK, I also hope it does not come to that, and my predictions are not true.
But I have to post not what I wish, but what I see. What I see is not good. Broadly, the thirteen and a half months left until the 1st April, 2019, is going to be an accelerating disaster. at the moment, I do not see a way out, for the UK, from this, unless unforeseen and unlikely events happen, to remove the Tory Government from power, and to put in place a labour Government. Your comment on Corbyn being replaced by Umunna, is actually a high probability. he is not exceptionally radical, but he does have principles, and determination. he is definitely leftish. The problem with Corbyn is that he lacks he backbone to stand up to a UK establishment that will do everything to break him. He is also not pro-EU, did not take leadership and stand against the BREXIT, as he has somewhat romanticised Trotskyite politics. Had he done so, the recent election would have put him into Downing street. But he did not, and lost. recent polls show that his support amongst the Youth has collapsed from 72% to just 40%, and this is a disaster. This is due to his disinterest in the BREXIT question, and lack of leadership. Also, the labour leadership is not yet securely in the hands of the Left, many powerful figures from the time of Blair, remain in office. As a force to overturn BREXIT, Labour will fail. (Prediction: They will not succeed in stopping BREXIT, or in becoming a credible alternative Government that would do so. If elected, Corbyn will actually almost split the Party, over BREXIT, and other issues. I do not give him a year's survival, in office.) That is where Umanna will take power. He will harness the support of the now massive Youth membership of the party, and the old labour members, who have returned to the party to fight for a left wing government. He has some possibilities there, but it will be too late. BREXIT will have happened. Also, vote rigging, gerrymandering, and illegal foreign election funding, will make his majority very slim. He too, will not last long. Around about 2021 or 2022 this will happen. )
There is much else that I could say, but I want to do some serious thinking, on this one. plus do an RV task on it. probably 10% or more of our visitors are UK based. So i think we owe them this.
As always thank you very much for your post, Zoron. Very sad what is happening. I spoke with a young educated man during anti brexit protest in Manchester yesterday, he sees no future for himself or his profession after we leave eu, because of the funding. I felt terribly sorry for him and many, many others who unfortunately had no say as they were too young to vote, but will have to live with the consequences of this dreadful referendum. I love UK and pray that somehow miracle happens ...
As you know, I live in the UK, but am feeling more and more as if I am living in a banana republic. The Conservative government is lurching from one disastrous mistake to another, and it gets worse, week by week. Your experience that you have had, talking to BREXIT victims, is fairly typical now. The whole country is now sliding relentlessly to the Right, and American neo-con policies are now the effective program of the Government. The destruction of the public services, and socialised health system, is now relentless, as you know. It will get worse. For anyone of conscience and consciousness, the UK is becoming a nightmare. The foreign corporations operating in the UK have now strongly told the UK Government that they will leave, and move inside the EU, if there serious problems from BREXIT are not solved. The latest Country to warn the UK Government that it will pull out is Japan, whose UK CEO's all held a meeting with their Ambassador, who then went to see the UK Premier, May, last Friday, and issued a public warning to her of their intentions. Other countries are following suit. It will get worse, and at the moment, I am very clearly seeing that the outcome is as I have prophesied in my previous post. (Prediction;) (We will find ourselves living in a bankrupt, isolated, corrupt country ruled by an extremist right wing government.) Horrible. Unless something radical happens, to unseat the present Government, and replace it with a Labour one, we are facing a disaster. I am not saying this as a political opinion, although my politics are rather obvious, and well to the left of the Average American, but quite simply from what I see. For what it is worth, there is an alternative time line "Condensing", but it is very weak at the moment. (Prediction;) (I do see that the present Tory Government will have effectively collapsed, into internal party warfare and conflict, and political paralyses by the time of BREXIT. It will almost certainly split from its unreliable Northern Irish right wing political allies, the Democratic Unionist Party, and become a minority government, as a result.) It will also face serious unrest and protest in Northern Ireland, from a very angry population there. (Prediction;) (There will be serious polarisation of the population there, the two communities facing a total breakdown of trust due to the BREXIT shock and the ejection of the North of Ireland, from the EU, as it is still part of the UK, and will be dragged out of the EU, in-spite of voting against BREXIT. This will lead to internal disturbances there. ) in Scotland, there will be a serious internal crisis, due to BREXIT. (Prediction: )( The Scottish Government will hold a second independence referendum, after BREXIT. They will win. A narrow majority will vote for Independence. The UK Government will refuse to accept the result, and a situation similar to that of Catalonia will arise. The Scottish government will then do exactly what the Catalan government did, and will obtain a majority vote in the Scottish parliament, and declare UDI. This will happen within 2 years of BREXIT, but probably sooner.) the crisis internally in the UK will be severe. There will be massive public protests, which will be savagely repressed by the police and special forces troops. A labour government, which cannot cope, will take office, after a hotly contested election, that is rife with illegal foreign funding, and vote rigging and gerrymandering. Corbyn will show weakness, and will fall, and will be replaced by the party. This will not solve any of the problems of the UK.They will get worse). this takes us to about 2025. (Prediction:) ( There will be a period of unstable minority Governments, with no real mandate, or clear parliamentary majorities. this will cause serious economic and other internal problems. By 2025, events will trigger off a massive rejection of the UK Establishment and the UK oligarchs. There will be a large scale protest movement, with frequent massive protests, (Think Arab Spring), and even violence and regular riots. The UK Government will respond with ruthless measures. but they will eventually be forced, by events, to give in, and allow a reformist Government to take office. But that government will face an impossible task, with inheriting power in a situation where UK economics and social problems ill make major reforms impossible. Thus, the cycle will repeat itself. Effectively, the UK will have broken up, in realistic terms. )
I have not discussed, in depth, the situation of Scotland, in all of this. it is still uncertain. The outcome of Scottish independence is inevitable. They will leave the Union. the issue will be that they will leave either peacefully, or after an Irish style internal revolt. the path of this is not yet set. This will not clarify until after BREXIT.
Thinking about why Brexit is going to continue and how it will all resolve, but it takes me to overall world directions which might be off topic for people hoping for specifics. BTW, I checked the readership from the UK -- it is 9% of this site's readership.
1. Brexit feels to be part of the same wave of selfishness and disconnection that has swept the U.S. It is driven by dark oligarchs who have a false belief that they alone have created their wealth, and they don't want to give any of it away to others. But their belief in their good fortunes is a huge error in thinking. They did not create their own wealth. They did not do it alone. They are stuck in the terrible two year old's complex of "mine, all mine."
The dark oligarchs, like Robert Mercer, have used their money and power to make Brexit happen.
2. Just like in the U.S., dark oligarchs will not let go of their power, and will resort to increasingly fascistic means to keep it. They use fear, just as the Right has always used fear, to get the masses to vote for in the interests of the ultra wealthy. (Fox News has a consistent stream of fear-based news going all day long, news that pits people against each other.)
3. I ask myself, "Why would anyone with a brain think that isolation would make them better off financially"? Perhaps someone here will help with the answer.
All I get is that Brexit is driven by the same mentality that creates gated golf course communities all across Florida. The wealthy have a way of life they've come to rely on, and are terrified of losing it. I would imagine that many oligarchs are putting their money in land and gold because they know that the stock market will crash once Brexit and the Brexit counterpart in the U.S. takes place. Then they can do what the oligarchs did during the Great Depression -- buy up cheap assets.
I ask what they think will happen to all the people? I get that they don't think about it. They block it out.
4. How will it all resolve? Fortunately, history is cyclical. As John Steinbeck wrote at the end of WWII, “All the goodness and the heroisms will rise up again, then be cut down again and rise up. It isn’t that the evil thing wins — it never will — but that it doesn’t die."
We are heading towards a Grapes of Wrath moment. Not yet. Probably in late 2019 or early 2020 if my original visions of the future that I got in 2014, are correct. I usually can't see a vision again once I've gotten it. So it's not like I continue to see that 2019-2020 is when world markets crash. It's just that the original vision of that happening was so clear, and so far it has been unfolding. But ultimately we won't know the timing until it unfolds.
5. Steinbeck ended his greatest novel with a scene that replays in my mind. A member of our community reminded me of it yesterday in a conversation. In the final scene of that novel, a young lactating mother gets down on the ground and breast feeds a man who is dying of starvation. There's no food around for him, there's no other nourishment that will save him. Everyone in that scene is poor and barely fed. She has the means and the motherhood to bring back the dying.
I see that image as representing the catalyst for change when we hit the bottom -- that the cycle of dark money rule will so starve the people that matriarchal sentiments will have to take over to save people. Not just in Britain, but in the U.S. and everywhere that patriarchy has caused the nations to no longer be able to nourish people.
6. The timing fits the Kali Yuga prophecy that Asian (formerly Indian) told me about in an email back in 2016. The prophecy says that around 2025 there is shift away from patriarchal rule. I researched it, but never found the original prophecy, just academics' writings about it. It is said to be 12,000 years old, so who knows, since there are no records of any kind going back that far.
I'm hesitant to use other prophecies to bolster my own, since all of these visions could be feeding on each other. Kali Yuga, according to academics, say that it will be 300 years after 2025 before the matriarchal system sorts itself out, rebuilds a shattered system and reaches some kind of stability. Then it will take another 300 years to reach a golden era.
At some point, I'd like to do a RV of 2400. But I digress way off from Brexit.
hi Jeanne, OMG, I made a terrible mistake. I wrote that rthe UK readership on here was 10%. (After scanning it). Sigh. I got it wrong. When you checked the stats, it was only 9% !. A whopping 1% error, on my part.(sounds of laughter). Must try harder the next time. More seriously, your analysis is absolutely spot on. I agree totally. The Psychopathic Social conservatives in the elite are exactly as you describe them. The question is, what to do about it. Well, this site has grown into something really interesting, shining a searchlight of truth on the dark corners of those in power. We will continue to do so. Interestingly, quantum physics predicts that the act of observing phenomena, perturbs the phenomena. We are observing the future, and this is perturbing the actual future. In subtle and delicate ways, we are perturbing and disturbing our own future, just be looking at it. Interesting. Hmmm, perhaps there was a truth in the classic Phillip K. Dick novel, "Man in the High castle". maybe "Timewaves" really exist. Maybe we are "looping" the future. Something to think about.
Zoron, Yes, I was amazed at how close you came to the actual percentage! You are good, man. And the difference might only be the time frame. 9% is the last nine months. Could be 10% in the next nine months.
Regarding your quantum physics comment, I often wonder if the reason I don't see my visions repeating when I read the same future at a later time, might involve that quantum physics observation effect. Once I've observed a vision of future consciousness, i.e., once I've seen for example the downward spiral of economy in 2019-20 and the increasingly rural and decentralization of the U.S. in the 2020's, I may never see it again in a vision in that way. That wave has collapsed for me to observe. But it may still happen.
There will be a large scale protest movement, with frequent massive protests, (Think Arab Spring), and even violence and regular riots. The UK Government will respond with ruthless measures. but they will eventually be forced, by events, to give in, and allow a reformist Government to take office.
Is it the end for the Royal Family? (which its self is a symbol of establishment, oligarchy and corruption)
Yes, it is the end of the royal family. I think that William will be the last king of England. he is the last emperor. The time of Charles will be a short one.
Feeling just a bit hopeful after Corbyns speech today, otherwise it started to feel like, as you describe it, banana republic.
Corbyn's speech did not go well. it did not go too far, to the left, and disappointed many of the party members, who were looking for something stronger on the EU. The demands he says he will make on the EU, if in power, cannot and will not happen. He wants Norway, as a status. This is not good. it will not work, and will not be agreed by the EU authorities. He does not seem to realise the very serious situation he has created, by not giving a clear, powerful path out of the mess we are in, if he gains power. He may well gain power, after the fall of the Tories, who, alas, are heading for splits and collapse, eventually. But he, in turn, will not be able to gain any headway. There will be an internal crisis in the UK labour party, and Corbyn will be brought down by the Scottish national party in parliament, due to his refusal to understand or agree on their demands. This will be the utterly fatal issue, and will surprise most people. All of this, in the next 4 years. (total cycle time.) much else will happen during that time. Wanting to do an RV on this issue in due course. i think it will be important.
I'd rather have a divided labour party in power than the current Tory one.
He should have promised second referendum if this insanity keeps on dragging long enough,they keep going around in circles and there is no clear vision of whats going to happen, this is devastating to small businesses and families. But I also agree with Stu, I rather have labour than right wing brextremist tories running the country. The positive - no hard border with Ireland and remain in customs union. RV on this issue is fantastic idea.
A divided Labour party is exactly what the UK is going to get. Internal struggles, inside the Party, which will become a de-facto split, visible to the UK public. Corbyn has an ideology which is left wing, but not left wing enough, for the crisis that a Corbyn Government will face. he will flinch, when it comes to the crunch. he also is being badly advised, as to electoral strategy. He is trying to be too many things, to too many voters, all at once. He has also outraged the Scots, whose Government (which is far more radical and leftist than the Tories) has been steadily advancing along a radical path that is more leftish than the previous labour UK Government. His speech simply ignored the Scottish issues and Northern Irish Ones. Both are crucial. He is A "Unionist", in a UK which is clearly disintegrating "United Kingdom". Ditto Northern Ireland, where he clearly does not understand the same issues are at work, and will probably end with the Peace treaty there collapsing. He will have serious problems, when He finally gets into office, that are probably beyond the capacity of any "UK" Political party to fix.
We are seeing a good bit military activity and wonder if its preparation for the unrest to come. A few days ago I read a tweet on a friend's twitter page, he wrote "On M90 near Perth in Scotland seen a military convoy with military vehicles and armoured police vehicles with Metropolitian Police insignia. Traffic kept away from it by police and was causing disruption. I have seen several Chinook helicopters and a few other ordinary helecoptors over Fife the last few days.
Scots will take it into our own hands with UDI, it is often spoken about and we fear Westminster authoritarian Gov will close our Scottish Parliament. The previous Scotland Office only had a staff of less than 100, David Mundell, the useless Tory Secretary of State for Scotland ran it, Westminster changed office to the UK Government Office in Scotland, built a new building to house 2900 staff, think it opens next year. Why would they go to all that expense unless they are going to silence our chosen Government, take away our powers and then say the Scottish Parliament is this new office ran by Westminster for Westminster but lying to Scots that it in anyway serves Scotland and its people. Our Scottish Parliament is protected by EU, Westminster can't abolish it but we will not have protection of EU post Brexit. We will go to war on that takeover. Zoron was pretty spot on and Ashcroft polls has Scots voting 53% (probably much larger by now) for Indy if there is a No Deal Brexit.