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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/24/2020 5:57 pm  

Adding this topic in order to merge posts into one place for the plight of animals, the choice to become or not become vegan, buying cruelty free products and in general how we can improve the plight of animals. 


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(@practicalnihilist)
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05/05/2020 12:54 pm  
Posted by: @laura-f

I don't recall who said this on another thread, perhaps @Coyote?

It was about US having shortages of meat. And here we are:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-27/americans-face-meat-shortages-while-farmers-are-forced-to-cull?utm_campaign=news&utm_medium=bd&utm_source=applenews

Wendy's is having meat shortages too:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/05/business/wendys-beef-shortage/index.html


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(@laura-f)
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05/05/2020 2:11 pm  

@practicalnihilist

Costco announced they are limiting meat purchases to 3 per customer.

In other news, my local farmer we get meat from announced that due to Newport Disease, there may very well be an extreme shortage of eggs and poultry nationwide. The state of CA is sending inspectors to all farms and euthanizing any chickens they believe may be infected, even if owners have proof of vaccination.


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(@grace)
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05/05/2020 4:52 pm  

To everyone who is worried about meat shortages, I want to say that that I've been eating a plant-based diet exclusively for over a year now, and it's fantastic! I'm 56, healthy and happy, and the food I eat is delicious. Please consider plant-based eating as an option, at least give it a try for the majority of your meals if not all of them.

It's a little bit of an adjustment initially, mainly because you have to figure out the substitutes for meat, dairy, and eggs, but it's very doable, very flavorful, healthy, gentler on the planet, and kinder on animals. Plus I have this theory that we're never going to be fully cooperative and peaceful as a human collective if we continue to slaughter living beings for food.

Vegan body builders and long-distance runners show us that we CAN get the nutrition we need on a 100% plant-based diet. If for whatever reason you are someone who cannot eat plants exclusively, you may be able to be fine with 90-95% plant-based. From where I sit, a meat shortage is not a crisis.

P.S. I'm vegan, my daughter is vegetarian, and my husband and son are flexitarian. At home. I eat 100% plant-based, and the rest of my family does about 99.5% plant-based (they occasionally consume dairy and/or eggs). My daughter and I do not eat meat. The only time my husband and son eat meat anymore is if they're in a social setting where the food being served has very limited options. Of course with social distancing these days, there are no social gatherings to go to.

Thank you, all! Love you guys!


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/05/2020 4:58 pm  

@grace. I am with you on this. I am still eating a little bit of poultry and dairy but trying to eliminate the poultry and only from humanely raised farms, and only eating the dairy from small, humane farms.  My thought is that if someone can't give up animal food, please buy it from places that treat the animals humanely. 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/05/2020 4:59 pm  

@grace. I am with you on this. My thought is that no creature should suffer because of my eating needs as well as my cosmetic and cleaning needs.  I am not fully plant-based yet, but we only buy from small local farms that treat their animals humanely.

 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/05/2020 6:40 pm  

Same with cosmetics and cleaning products. I avoid any creams, shampoos, cosmetics that use animals for testing. The cruelty inflicted on animals for testing, which is unnecessary, boggles the mind. I avoid such products but hadn't realized until now how extensive the cruelty products are: 

According to CrueltyKitty.com, these brands test on animals.  Don't buy them: Maybelline, MaxFactor, Clairol, Dove, Clinique, Johnson & Johnson, L'Oreal, Colgate, Aveeno, Avon, Bain de Soleil, Bath and Body, Bed Head, Calvin Klein, Clearasil, Dial, Crabtree & Evelyn, Estee Lauder, Febreze, Escada, Arm & Hammer, Amway, Joy, Almay, Banana Boat, Comet, Chlorox, Caresse, Crest, Dior, Gucci, Gerlain, Head & Shoulders, Gilette, Herbal Essences, Glade, Givenchy, Helena Rubenstein, Ivory, Jergins, L'Occitane, Irish Spring, Kotex, Lady Speed Stick, Neutrogena, Noxema, Olay, Old Spice, Pantene, Mr. Clean, Nice & Easy,Vaseline, Windex, Victoria's Secret, Downy, Elizabeth Arden, Ponds, Pine sol, Mary Kay, Kotex, Mitchum.

This is only a partial list.  I picked them because I know these brands.  You can get the full list and the details on Crueltykitty.com.

Cruelty Free: Trader Joes brand, Kirkland which is Costco's brand, and Whole Foods (365) products say they are cruelty free.  All three of these stores have tons of products, soaps, shampoos, cosmetics, even hair dyes and all are cruelty free.  YAY!


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(@elaineg)
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05/05/2020 6:46 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

I'v flirted with going meat free, but I feel like I'm starving, and I love milk and cheese too much. 


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(@grace)
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05/05/2020 8:56 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

Thank you so much for the reminder on buying cruelty-free products, Jeanne <3 I need to get better at checking those lists. I do make sure to get plant-based bar soaps and avoid anything with sodium tallowate in the ingredients list (it's derived from animal fat).

@elaineg

ElaineG, my son has taken up making plant-based cheeses (some of his primary ingredients include cashews, roasted red peppers, and sunflower seeds). I'm amazed at how good those cheezes are. His grilled cheeze sandwiches are phenomenal!


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/06/2020 12:22 am  

I would love to find cheese alternatives that are good.  I do love cooking with coconut milk.  The taste is great and creamy, and there are some yum dishes with coconut milk, veggies, and turmeric and hot peppers on fresh steamed jasmine rice. Yum. I need more ideas though. I can't digest beans.  Hey @Laura-f, you got any ideas?  


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(@laura-f)
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05/06/2020 2:13 am  

@jeanne-mayell

I will head over to the recipes thread and bump it to answer 😉 


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(@kateinpdx)
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05/06/2020 3:41 am  

@grace

I agree that a meat shortage is not an emergency. If anything it will likely support people's health. 

We also switched to primarily plant-based eating for health and environmental reasons and I am surprised how much I like it. The food is delicious and I feel better in general (lighter, more energy, my joints feel better). We do still (very) occasionally eat animal foods and am surprised that most of the flavor in my dishes actually comes from the veggies and seasonings, not the meat or dairy like I thought it did.

The thing I missed was the texture I realized, and there are so many ways to make up for it. (Even tofu can mimic meaty texture if you freeze it, then thaw it out, it gets chewy).

My theory and feeling is that the way we raise animals is barbaric and has a heavy cost. Everything from the profound environmental degradation that is measurable (and one contributing factor to things like the CV), to things we cannot yet measure, such as the energetic toll that raising animals in egregious conditions must have on our collective energy and psyche. 

I am of the personal opinion that we will not be able to truly heal until we respect animals and raise them humanely, in a way that respects the environment and their roles as sentient beings. And some of that includes eating much less meat and animal products. 


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(@herondreams)
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05/06/2020 7:23 am  

@jeanne-mayell

Like you, I aim for animal food products from farms that are local/regional and/or humane. I used to be vegetarian, and wasn't a healthy one, and became anemic and super lethargic/depressed. As I gained more awareness of myself and devoted more attention to my health, I learned that high omega 3s/DHA and other good quality fats are essential for me, as is animal protein. Walnuts and flax seeds are not enough. I can tolerate black beans okay (still pretty uncomfortable) but lentils, soy, even peas and peanut butter cause me excruciating pain. I have celiac disease and a tricky digestive system, and because of that, we do little dairy anyway, but always grass-fed, humane when we do. We have easy access to quality meat and dairy in our area, although it is expensive, but eating less of it is good too.

Which is to say that I would encourage people to veer away from an all-or-nothing approach. First, not everyone can be vegetarian/vegan--there has been some ableism in those movements.  

Second, the industrial food system needs to be dismantled, including plant monocultures that cause loss of biodiversity. Deforestation was happening in Brazil not just for cattle but for soy crops. Corn is another one. There is a middle ground here we might envision, and many of our communities have the seeds of this sort of food system in place--networks of small farmers that have diversified crops, both animal and vegetable. As the Savory Institute has shown, it is even possible to raise beef/lamb in ways that restore carbon to the soil. With this model we will all need to consume less, certainly, and the amount of food we waste now is appalling. 

Whatever we choose to eat, we should be intentional, mindful, grateful, and consider all the labor and life that has been expended in our meal so that we might live. Food is always a sacrament.


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(@laura-f)
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05/07/2020 12:37 pm  

@herondreams

Same here. My autoimmune issues came to the forefront during the time I was vegetarian. What people may not realize is that unless you strive for organic plant products, you are poisoning your system worse than if you eat meat.  I also have absorption issues - in fact was diagnosed with anemia and malnutrition as a result. I couldn't possibly eat enough walnuts to get the zinc I need, and while I do take supplements, unfortunately my body prefers a little red meat now and again to keep my mineral levels up. I was also considered borderline osteopenia, went back to (organic/local) meat and that has disappeared.

I agree that there is some ableism in this argument.

The Japanese have a phrase they say before eating anything: "Itadakimasu" - it means "I accept this food gratefully"


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(@deetoo)
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05/07/2020 1:30 pm  

@laura-f and @herondreams, I am in a similar situation with my autoimmune conditions and I eat some meat.  I do purchase organic and humanely raised, and don't eat a lot of it.  I'm also limited with my carbohydrate intake because of blood sugar issues.  Bread and pasta (whether gluten-free or not) are the worst culprits.  I haven't had any rice or pasta in over 6 years.  I also have to watch the bean consumption; they're good for me unless I have a large amount, which can spike my blood sugar.  I'm allergic to soy, so no tofu for me.  And I've recently been dealing with food reactions caused by histamine.  So it's been quite a balancing act for me these days.  Thank God I can still have my daily 88% dark chocolate!

@kateinpdx, I agree that we will not be able to truly heal until we respect animals and raise them humanely.  Along those lines, @herondreams, I agree that the industrial food system needs to be dismantled.  It's appalling and sinful.  I love what you wrote:

Whatever we choose to eat, we should be intentional, mindful, grateful, and consider all the labor and life that has been expended in our meal so that we might live. Food is always a sacrament.


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(@triciact)
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05/07/2020 2:46 pm  

@laura-f

I had the same thing - I was not eating as much meat at one time and found out I had anemia. I tried to replace it with other things but at the time (several years ago) I was not eating completely organic. I had digestive issues trying to eat the plant based sausages recently. I am now only eating grass fed beef occasionally, mostly fish and chicken, rarely pork - all organic. I space out my meat meals and eat two meatless meals every week (pasta based usually or pizza on occasion). We eat fish two to three times a week and then supplement with chicken and some grass fed beef here and there.

I love to eat this particular meatless pasta recipe from Lydia Bastianich. I like to leave my cherry tomatoes in the oven at least 35-40 min and I use a ton of garlic 🍕  and I use Super greens spaghetti because it's made with green veggie powder in the flour. Mangia!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjPZR5nUQQ


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(@grace)
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05/07/2020 3:35 pm  

@herondreams

I agree with you about veering away from an all-or-nothing approach. In my post I noted that, for those who cannot eat plants exclusively, perhaps a 90-95% plant diet might work (of course, it could be closer to 75% for some people, everyone is different). I applaud everyone who is mindful of what they eat and where it comes from, whatever your dietary needs or restrictions may be.

I ate meat until 2006, then was vegetarian for 13 years, never thought I'd be able to become fully vegan, but managed to nonetheless and have been one for the past year and a half, with no desire to  go back. I think I picked a good time to transition, for me, anyways, because both nutritional knowledge and plant-based options are far more advanced than they've ever been.

While I consider myself healthy, I have conditions that I'm mindful of ... fybrocistic breast condition, spinal issues in the neck area, nerve issues at my shoulders, for example. I've overcome panic attacks, severe carpal tunnel, and digestive issues, among other things. And I'm an empath who feels others' pain more fully than many of the people around me do. I'm well acquainted with pain, both the physical and emotional kinds, and I have some issues that don't make me as fully abled as some of my counterparts, but I consider myself healthy, vibrant, happy, and grateful nonetheless 🙂

Research shows that Americans as a whole eat 3 to 5 times more protein than their bodies need, with most of this protein coming from animal sources. For this reason alone, a meat shortage will not hurt us. I think we as a collective need to be mindful of individuals who have to eat animal products for their well-being. And maybe some day science will develop ways to meet these needs without humans having to raise and kill animals. That is the hope. For everyone else, transitioning to more (or all) plant-based meals is a good thing all the way around.

Whatever we eat, I wholeheartedly agree that it's important to be grateful for the nourishment we receive. But an animal wants to live happily just as much as I do, and therein lies the dilemma for me (which I've overcome by finally being able to be vegan).


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(@stargazer)
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05/07/2020 7:44 pm  

kateinpdx & grace ...

The beef industry here in the US is such a mega-travesty, because of the enormous demand of the fast food restaurants and the American need to base their entire diet around consuming red meat. I call it the unfortunate ' curse of the omnivore', and red meat can become an unhealthy addiction for many.

I have basically avoided it for the better part of my life, and though I enjoy fresh fish and do have (humanely sourced,organic) poultry and dairy on occasion, I am not attracted to red meat at all. This is an ethical decision as well as a health issue,and as you described Grace, with your own physical being, eating red meat can be detrimental. Just the toxicity of the adrenaline that is pumping through the poor creatures when they are slaughtered can be really bad to ingest.

The thing is, if one doesn't have a homegrown or humanely sourced product, you can never know what the meat actually contains, or if it is even beef ... even discarded dairy cows are sent to slaughter to be placed on supermarket shelves.

And this is a sad truth .. horse meat is a favorite in many countries, although banned in the US, multi-thousands of American horses are shipped over borders to horrendous deaths in Canada, Mexico and Japan... it's appalling! And yes, horse meat has even turned up in the beef chain as disguised, in the US.

Many of these horses are our Wild Mustangs that are being brutally taken from their designated homelands on our public lands, to support the increasing demand for cattle grazing ...a mega mega $$$ industry that is being fully steamrolled through by our corrupt politicians.

That in itself is good reason to practice a plant-based diet, and there are so many wonderful alternatives now that are available almost everywhere as consciousness grows .....

(Sorry for the rant here Jeanne 🙄, though here's a prediction that may become a hit )).... 'In the not too distant future, the world will become a more compassionate place for both animal and human alike'... maybe because of plant-based diet wisdom and sane government stewardship? It's possible! 🌱


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/07/2020 8:34 pm  
Posted by: @stargazer

kateinpdx & grace ...

The beef industry here in the US is such a mega-travesty, because of the enormous demand of the fast food restaurants and the American need to base their entire diet around consuming red meat. I call it the unfortunate ' curse of the omnivore', and red meat can become an unhealthy addiction for many.

Underlying that demand, creating that demand, and ensuring it continues is the NCBA, National Cattleman's Beef Association and the meat lobby. They are the real reason that America is still into red meat.  They are as politically influential as the NRA is in keeping guns in people's hands and are as politically influential as  the oil and gas industry is in burning greenhouse gases. 

 


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(@stargazer)
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05/07/2020 10:42 pm  

@jeanne-mayell

Oh yes, Jeanne ... one of the most profound and ugly manifestations of the idiocy and greed of T-Rump's ugly administration. The Cattlemen's Asso. are all in bed with the devil's own; the DOI and their henchman the BLM, and are decimating our public lands, our great wilderness preserves, and our irreplaceable and iconic Wild Mustangs.....

It is beyond heart breaking, and gets way too little recognition... so much has been destroyed already in the name of the almighty dollar. If it continues, the legacy that represents this country's finest heritage will be just a memory of our once vast uncorrupted wild places .. all being sold out to corrupt big oil, mining and drilling, and cattle enterprises that are private, for mega-profit big business.  😢

 


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(@grace)
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05/08/2020 6:13 pm  

@laynara

Very sad about the displaced people & animals, and all of the fire destruction. 

 

I want to share this with the forum:

Killer heat and humidity combination not experienced before is becoming more common, https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/weather/killer-heat-climate-change-study/index.html

From the article:

"I was astonished by our findings," the author of the study tells CNN Weather. "My previously published study projected that these conditions would not take hold until later in the century."
"We may be at a closer tipping point than we think," Horton says.
"Climate change is increasing both air temperatures and the amount of moisture in the air, making humid heat events more frequent and severe."
-----------------------------------------

I don't remember all of the exact predictions or when they were made, but I know that people here have seen areas of the world getting too hot and too humid to live in. Apparently it's happening faster than researchers believed it would. 

There is one prediction for May, made by Jeanne, that syncs up with this article:

Summer is unusually hot already. Too much rain in some places. Too much heat in others. I see water vapor rising from the sidewalks. The heat in Florida has become unbearable. The people have turned away from the climate deniers. (Jeanne Mayell) Predicted 10.9.19


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(@kateinpdx)
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05/09/2020 2:50 am  

@herondreams

My apologies if my post offended you. That wasn't my intention.

I agree, we have to listen to our bodies to know how to best nourish it and we are all a bit different. Way back in my 20's I was an obnoxious vegetarian who believed I was right and everyone who ate meat was wrong. 

Thankfully I got off that high horse (no pun intended!). I tried to be vegan for a while but it doesn't work for my body either. I do still eat some animal foods now to feel well, but far, far less than I used to (after being veg I went the other way for a while). So, I'm omnivore leaning heavily toward plant based. My spouse on the other hand would happily be a raw vegan. That would literally make me sick. I tried it. After 2 weeks I felt as vital as a dish sponge. 

My hope and wish is that we come to a place as a human species where we invest more heavily in regenerative farming practices (that would also make a significant difference in climate change!), raise animals humanely, respect ecosystems and biodiversity and use our vastly creative and innovative talents to come up with ingenious ways to live sustainably with a high quality of life for everyone. Hey, a girl can dream, right! 

But I digress...All that is to say I do not judge anyone who eats meat, and hopefully I don't come across that way. I know there are plenty of people who's bodies truly need it. And I think dogma is probably pretty unhealthy too. Not to mention a drag!

 


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(@triciact)
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05/11/2020 10:25 am  

To everyone here about meat. I appreciate that this forum is a non-judgemental place. I too can't and won't be a vegetarian/vegan but also buy all my meat and fish from sustainable, organic and those farms that have humane practices when it comes to animals. Fish I buy sustainable. I do eat two non meat or fish meals per week (generally speaking)

One thing that happened to me when I was iron deficient a couple times in my life was I found out that if you drink wine with dinner at night and you are eating Iron rich foods to boost your iron/B12 etc. don't drink RED wine with the meal, but drink WHITE wine instead WITH the meal. You can have the red later, but while you are consuming Iron rich foods it is best to do it without red wine because it interferes with the iron absorption. This was given to me by my doctor at the time. 🍷 


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(@stargazer)
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05/25/2020 4:08 pm  
Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

Adding this topic in order to merge posts into one place for the plight of animals, the choice to become or not become vegan, buying cruelty free products and in general how we can improve the plight of animals. 

Well my dears, if you ask yourselves.... would I slaughter this animal to sustain myself... ?

And really consider the reality .. the abbatoirs....and the whole process of suffering ...what would you choose?

Just want to leave this here.....

(From the late great Edward Abbey ... wilderness adovocate, and author extraordinaire)....

"How strange and wonderful is our home,our Earth

With it's swirling vaporous atmosphere

It's flowing and and frozen climbing creatures

The croaking things with wings that hang on rocks

And soar through fog, the furry grass, the scaly seas

How utterly rich and wild ...

Yet some among us have the nerve, the insolence,the brass, the gall to whine of our earthbound fate...

And yearn for some more perfect world beyond the sky ...

We are none of us good enough for the world we have. "

 

 


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(@jeanne-mayell)
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05/25/2020 4:25 pm  

Well my dears, if you ask yourselves.... would I slaughter this animal to sustain myself... ?--Stargazer

Thank you, @stargazer, for this poignant reminder.

I had one of my rare vivid dreams last year which I posted in the dreams section.  I was serving something for dinner. It was three plates with young quails or chickens in each one.  They were alive.  I was told (by spirit, I presume) that I would have to slaughter them myself if I was to serve them for my guests and myself. I could not do it, so we ate something else. 

That was the dream.  I can't forget it. 

When I posted it, a few people responded that they have to eat animals due to digestive problems.  I have those digestive problems too.  It is difficult but the dream is still there.  

When Joaquim Phoenix chose to use his award moment at the Academy Awards to speak of the suffering of cows and their calfs so that we can have cream in our coffee, again, I was struck by the reminder to care for our fellow beings. So difficult, so inconvenient, but the message is clear.


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 gbs
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05/25/2020 4:54 pm  

I am getting there slowly. Since the lockdown, I've been eating less meat because I've been cooking almost all my meals and I don't like the smells of meat lingering inside my apartment.

I'm also drinking less cow's milk and transitioning to oat milk. 

Cheese is my biggest challenge. I buy cheese made by small producers, but I wish I could embrace non-animal alternatives.


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(@stargazer)
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05/26/2020 12:11 am  

@jeanne-mayell

Thank you Jeanne, gbs, and dhyanaji 💛

Didn't intend to "meat-shame" anyone ... I recall several people saying that they can't live without it for various reasons. So to each his/her own ...

I suppose that I am really feeling the injustices of the corporate meat industries (humongous), how especially now in this stressed time there are more crimes than ever before going on ... there were more reports of horse meat being illegally passed off as beef (in Europe) recently ... and millions of farm animals have been callously destroyed during the pandemic.

It appears that times of extreme crisis brings out the very worst, but also the very best in we humans... an animal sanctuary in California bought two million chickens to save them from being wasted on the altar of corporate greed, and even sent planes to pick them up from a Midwestern state. That was a Wow moment!

My late grandfather was of Cherokee descent, and a hunter who only ate wild game ...he was the kindest person on this earth and saved baby animals all the time... it wasn't unusual for him to come in with little orphaned rabbits in his big jacket pockets (we would nurse & release them, no, they weren't dinner)). Though he did take deer and some fowl, like pheasant and duck, he honored their lives and was very conscientious.

A bygone era, when people raised their own food is a template that we could all benefit from to consider in the coming years ... and to be aware of the sources of all of our foodstuffs. I would love to see the demise of the corporate farms, and especially the cattle industry . The suffering that these mega-$$$ monsters have created is so insane! 😔

 


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(@stargazer)
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05/26/2020 1:31 am  

@dhyanaji

Aww, thank you! Yes, Grandpa Jack was a real heart throb too, lols... he was 6'5 and could have been Gary Cooper's twin 🙂 Loved and sorely missed by all ....

The 'horse meat for human consumption' is a very, very big issue, and one atrocity that I have been battling for a very long time... on top of the thousands of domestic horses being discarded into the food chain (they are sold to kill buyers and cruelly transported across borders to be bloody slaughtered in the worst imaginable way), there are literally thousands of our precious Wild Mustangs being obliterated as well along with them. It is one of the more filthy 'little secrets' of the Great Idiot's regime along with his DOI and BLM henchman, and the good ol' Cattleman's Asso.

Ok, don't get me started! I have cried rivers of tears, advocated until I turn purple, and almost had a for-reals heart attack over this battle, along with many others who passionately want to see these iconic and irreplaceable beings (and the designated wild lands that they inhabit) remain free and alive.

Ahh, man, what a world our children are inheriting. Thank Spirit for people like you ... 💛


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(@moonbeam)
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05/26/2020 3:36 am  

I usually avoid anything talking about animal cruelty because I simple cannot handle it. I too am a vegetarian and try to be kind to every living thing (with the exception of ticks and mosquitoes, sorry:s)

 

That said, I really hope all of this makes ppl change towards less meat. I still can't believe all those animals have been killed just because it was easier to do so for those companies. It's monstrous, just like the fur industry.

 

I have said for years that if ppl hunt their own food it is natural. So a solute to all your grandparents who did! Mankind has forgotten where food comes from. I think that is the basis of all suffering.


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(@lovendures)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1546
07/10/2020 1:53 am  

Great news for Grizzly bears.  

In a stunning victory for wildlife conservationists and indigenous tribes – and for bears – a US court ruled on Wednesday that grizzly bears living in the vast Yellowstone ecosystem will remain federally protected and not be subjected to sport hunting.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service had sought to strip Yellowstone-area grizzlies of safeguards conferred by the Endangered Species Act. This would have allowed the states of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho to permit a limited number of people to obtain hunting licenses, though sport hunting would have remained prohibited within Yellowstone itself.

WildEarth Guardians was among eight environmental groups, citizens and tribal entities that sued to have the highest level of species protection restored to grizzlies, on the basis that the bears’ recovery had not been assured.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/09/yellowstone-grizzly-bears-federal-protections-court


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